Basketball over - now what?

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tulaneoutlaw
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Basketball over - now what?

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

I'm starting a new thread on this because I think it's much bigger than just the Memphis game. I don't care if you are Kentucky or Chicago St. (dead last in RPI), what occurred this season was unacceptable. This deserves a complete house cleaning. Rip everything out down to the studs and then burn it down. The mark this year was NIT/pushing for tourney berth. A miss this bad should send MD packing no matter what kind of recruits he's bringing in.

Personally, I'd like to see us switch gears entirely. Find an up and coming coach, preferably with private school experience and some success at a lower level of college basketball, and let him build from scratch. The last few years have been so miserable I think we'll have to get back to being merely competent before we can hope to be actual winners. I would love to see us employ a strategy of bringing in solid groups of younger guys that can be developed so that when they are juniors and seniors they are experienced and play as a team. I'd much rather feel like we're in the mix every third year for a tourney berth than what we have now which is not even within pi$$ing distance.

Check out the top coaches in the SoCon, A10, MVC, and maybe even the smaller conferences like the Colonial and Patriot. There's more than one somebody at those levels that get us where we want to go.

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Ray
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Ray »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:I'm starting a new thread on this because I think it's much bigger than just the Memphis game. I don't care if you are Kentucky or Chicago St. (dead last in RPI), what occurred this season was unacceptable. This deserves a complete house cleaning. Rip everything out down to the studs and then burn it down. The mark this year was NIT/pushing for tourney berth. A miss this bad should send MD packing no matter what kind of recruits he's bringing in.

Personally, I'd like to see us switch gears entirely. Find an up and coming coach, preferably with private school experience and some success at a lower level of college basketball, and let him build from scratch. The last few years have been so miserable I think we'll have to get back to being merely competent before we can hope to be actual winners. I would love to see us employ a strategy of bringing in solid groups of younger guys that can be developed so that when they are juniors and seniors they are experienced and play as a team. I'd much rather feel like we're in the mix every third year for a tourney berth than what we have now which is not even within pi$$ing distance.

Check out the top coaches in the SoCon, A10, MVC, and maybe even the smaller conferences like the Colonial and Patriot. There's more than one somebody at those levels that get us where we want to go.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by waverider »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:Re: Basketball over - now what?
We hope our pitchers figure things out so baseball doesn’t suck until we get to our more successful football?
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by GSx »

They even dumbed-down the schedule this season. That's usually the "when all else fails" last gasp move at Tulane to protect non-perfomers ....so when that fails, as it always does, what's next?

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Wave Revival »

GSx wrote:They even dumbed-down the schedule this season. That's usually the "when all else fails" last gasp move at Tulane to protect non-perfomers ....so when that fails, as it always does, what's next?
At least when the schedule was dumbed down for Conroy he beat the teams he was supposed to beat.

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by angrywavedad »

My son - a HUGE basketball fan - started the season excited to cheer for the Green Wave and went to as many of the games as he could get to. By the end of the season he was ignoring the team completely and choosing to watch other school's games on his laptop in his room rather than walk down the street to see his own team play. Over break I heard him tell his friends at Ivy and Patriot schools that their teams were better than his. He reports that his Tulane friends - basketball players and fans all - feel the exact same way.

The AD has a big decision to make. College basketball is not the NBA and you don't get top draft picks in exchange for being horrible. So what's the plan?

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Poseidon »

Fire Dunleavy. Finishing 2nd to last out of 351 teams in year three when previous two were losing seasons as well shows a clear mistake was made in the hiring. Accept that, bite the bullet and move in a better direction. It really isn't more complex than that. Not this time. The old "we are close to turning the corner" argument holds no water at all because we are no where near it. It's not support. The Hertz center was supposed to close the gap or give us an advantage.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

If Dunleavy has a job at 5pm today, then Dannen will have seriously disappointed me for the first time. He hasn't nailed every move so far, but at least it seemed like we had a plan and were trying to execute it. Poseidon, you nailed it.

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

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Poseidon wrote:Fire Dunleavy. Finishing 2nd to last out of 351 teams in year three when previous two were losing seasons as well shows a clear mistake was made in the hiring. Accept that, bite the bullet and move in a better direction. It really isn't more complex than that. Not this time. The old "we are close to turning the corner" argument holds no water at all because we are no where near it. It's not support. The Hertz center was supposed to close the gap or give us an advantage.
I knew that this season was the most losses in school history but somehow I didn't realize that it broke the record set in Dunleavy's first season.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by washwave »

In the wake of a historically bad season like this, a school that is serious about having a respectable and competitive athletic department has to say or do something. The idea that Melvin Frazier leaving was a surprise and that the injury to Ray Ona Embo is the difference between 4 and 20 wins is insulting to our intelligence. The notion that the football team made a bowl game and the baseball team is competitive this year, so don't worry about basketball does not work either. I sort of hate the idea that people always need to be fired for anything that goes wrong, but there needs to be some tangible sign that gives those that support the program a reason to continue to do so. Doing nothing will put a significant cloud over the tenure of an AD that started off strong and call into question the ongoing commitment of the administration that we thought was finally in place.

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by TUPF »

Burnt toast.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by TUPF »

washwave wrote:I sort of hate the idea that people always need to be fired for anything that goes wrong...
I really don’t. On the one hand it’s “only sports” but it is the livelihoods of many with real tangible fiduciary impact to a bigger institution. Play to succeed or don’t bother.

It probably is not fair to compare but my former profession was/is always this way. It’s a rare year when the Navy does not have some commanding officer somewhere “relieved for cause”. It can be anything from hitting the pier with your billion dollar ship the crew making a mess ashore. It all comes under the heading of “you knew or should have known”.

Dannen knows or should know about this failed experiment. And I’m done with recycled old guys. There is a reason why Banquet Bob and other retreads are best left for reunion backslapping appearances.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by murphwave »

When Tulane re-affirmed that he would be back next season, they referenced UH and their model of success. Frankly, I don't see any comparison. They turned it around in year 1, not by having a better coach necessarily but by getting better recruits.

Under Kelvin Sampson, UH has gone:

Year 1: 13-19
Year 2: 22-10 (NIT)
Year 3: 21-11 (NIT)
Year 4: 27-8 (NCAA)
Yer 5: 29-2 (NCAA)
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by gerryb323 »

murphwave wrote:When Tulane re-affirmed that he would be back next season, they referenced UH and their model of success. Frankly, I don't see any comparison. They turned it around in year 1, not by having a better coach necessarily but by getting better recruits.

Under Kelvin Sampson, UH has gone:

Year 1: 13-19
Year 2: 22-10 (NIT)
Year 3: 21-11 (NIT)
Year 4: 27-8 (NCAA)
Yer 5: 29-2 (NCAA)
Let's start comparing to Will Wade's and Sean Miller's records while we're at it. I think what we're saying is we just need to hire someone who will start paying the players.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by GretnaGrn »

This season set records for worst winning percentage and most losses in Tulane history. It is the only time in Tulane history we've gone 0 for the conference.

In year three of a coach's tenure, no less.

It was an experiment worth trying. It has failed. Nothing less than a new coach is needed at this stage.

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by GreenieBacker »

As Gretna noted, I agree it was an experiment worth trying. That said, as much as it pains me my gut tells me that MD is coming back. Hopefully we do something to help him, new Assistants comes to mind. Maybe a young up and coming new guy with the knowledge that the job is his as we gracefully usher MD out the door?
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by murphwave »

Tulane chose to make the UH comparison - so their record trajectory should be what we are holding this staff accountable to.
gerryb323 wrote:
murphwave wrote:When Tulane re-affirmed that he would be back next season, they referenced UH and their model of success. Frankly, I don't see any comparison. They turned it around in year 1, not by having a better coach necessarily but by getting better recruits.

Under Kelvin Sampson, UH has gone:

Year 1: 13-19
Year 2: 22-10 (NIT)
Year 3: 21-11 (NIT)
Year 4: 27-8 (NCAA)
Yer 5: 29-2 (NCAA)
Let's start comparing to Will Wade's and Sean Miller's records while we're at it. I think what we're saying is we just need to hire someone who will start paying the players.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by krewe of ham and eggs »

GreenieBacker wrote:Hopefully we do something to help him
Here's a start:
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AnY iMaGeS yOu PoRtRaY wIlL bE rEpReSeNtAtIvE oF tHe TeAm YoU sUpPoRt

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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Poseidon »

murphwave wrote:Tulane chose to make the UH comparison - so their record trajectory should be what we are holding this staff accountable to.
gerryb323 wrote:
murphwave wrote:When Tulane re-affirmed that he would be back next season, they referenced UH and their model of success. Frankly, I don't see any comparison. They turned it around in year 1, not by having a better coach necessarily but by getting better recruits.

Under Kelvin Sampson, UH has gone:

Year 1: 13-19
Year 2: 22-10 (NIT)
Year 3: 21-11 (NIT)
Year 4: 27-8 (NCAA)
Yer 5: 29-2 (NCAA)
Let's start comparing to Will Wade's and Sean Miller's records while we're at it. I think what we're saying is we just need to hire someone who will start paying the players.

Why not compare us to Rice with Mike Rhoades a couple of years ago.

The two years before Rhoades was at Rice they were 5-26 and 7-23.

Then Rhoades went 12-20, 12-20, 23-12. While not great that is generally the conservative path we would like to have seen.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by gerryb323 »

murphwave wrote:Tulane chose to make the UH comparison - so their record trajectory should be what we are holding this staff accountable to.
gerryb323 wrote:
murphwave wrote:When Tulane re-affirmed that he would be back next season, they referenced UH and their model of success. Frankly, I don't see any comparison. They turned it around in year 1, not by having a better coach necessarily but by getting better recruits.

Under Kelvin Sampson, UH has gone:

Year 1: 13-19
Year 2: 22-10 (NIT)
Year 3: 21-11 (NIT)
Year 4: 27-8 (NCAA)
Yer 5: 29-2 (NCAA)
Let's start comparing to Will Wade's and Sean Miller's records while we're at it. I think what we're saying is we just need to hire someone who will start paying the players.
Then they should have started paying the players when they started the comparison
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by gerryb323 »

I'm on board. Give me Pitino
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Poseidon »

I would look at Casey Alexander at Lipscomb. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Alexander
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Poseidon »

Poseidon wrote:I would look at Casey Alexander at Lipscomb. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Alexander
But Poseidon, we have a coach.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by Poseidon »

Poseidon wrote:
Poseidon wrote:I would look at Casey Alexander at Lipscomb. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Alexander
But Poseidon, we have a coach.
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Re: Basketball over - now what?

Post by waverider »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:If Dunleavy has a job at 5pm today, then Dannen will have seriously disappointed me for the first time. He hasn't nailed every move so far, but at least it seemed like we had a plan and were trying to execute it. Poseidon, you nailed it.
I think the plan has been laid out since day one. Year 4 is the expectation of playing for a conf championship and NCAA tournament. As LG pointed out, if that’s the plan then Dunleavy will have another year to try to get there.
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