USC UCLA to the Big 10

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PeteRasche
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:16 amNo but the ACC has notre dame locked down for the time being. When they were allowed to join the acc for only 2020 they signed a clause saying they couldn't join any other conference for something like 8 years.
Yes, but {insert name of famous coach} signed a contract to coach {insert team name} for {insert large number} years but got bought out and went elsewhere after only a year.

or if you prefer

Yes, but {insert name of large power school} signed a contract to play a game against {insert G5 school} in {insert year in the future} but got bought out and the game was canceled.

Contracts mean nothing when you have the money they have. If the Big Ten wants Notre Dame, the Big Ten can buy out whatever number it would take to get Notre Dame.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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gerryb323 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:24 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:23 am
FW wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:18 amThat mid-March baseball series between UCLA and Minnesota in Minneapolis is going to be lit
The Metrodome is probably an option...
Not so fast my friend!
I literally googled the Metrodome because I thought it had been demolished and was looking for a currently-standing dome in Minneapolis, and the initial results did not mention it being demolished... I even clicked the wikipedia page and the TOC on the left mentioned all sorts of stuff played there, and no one mentioned the demolition in the "intro" paragraph or the summary at the right. Turns out I didn't scroll down far enough. Heh, serves me right for not trusting my memory. :lol: :lol:
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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PeteRasche wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:25 pm
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:16 amNo but the ACC has notre dame locked down for the time being. When they were allowed to join the acc for only 2020 they signed a clause saying they couldn't join any other conference for something like 8 years.
Yes, but {insert name of famous coach} signed a contract to coach {insert team name} for {insert large number} years but got bought out and went elsewhere after only a year.

or if you prefer

Yes, but {insert name of large power school} signed a contract to play a game against {insert G5 school} in {insert year in the future} but got bought out and the game was canceled.

Contracts mean nothing when you have the money they have. If the Big Ten wants Notre Dame, the Big Ten can buy out whatever number it would take to get Notre Dame.
I get it. I think this is a little different since ND is backed by not just NBC, but also the ACC is backed by ESPN. The Big Ten is flush with cash, but so are those two entities.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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How does the SEC and the Big 10 shave off current members like Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Vandy, South Carolina, Mississippi State, and Kentucky. None of these schools add any value from a football perspective.

Just putting this question out here again. Didn’t want it to get loss in the shuffle. Can these conferences force members out without starting a new conference? What kind of payoff would this be?
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:49 pm How does the SEC and the Big 10 shave off current members like Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Vandy, South Carolina, Mississippi State, and Kentucky. None of these schools add any value from a football perspective.

Just putting this question out here again. Didn’t want it to get loss in the shuffle. Can these conferences force members out without starting a new conference? What kind of payoff would this be?
I'm of the opinion they won't try. To do so would probably mean leaving the SEC and Big Ten and forming something new. Those brands have a lot of clout. Not everyone here agrees, but there is value in having inventory with weaker teams. Competition isn't what's driving realignment, but you still have to keep fanbases engaged if you want the money to keep pouring in. That means hope has to be kept alive. For South Carolina that's being a member of the club at all. For Tennessee it's the extra wins picked up by beating South Carolina and Vanderbilt. For Alabama it's beating all the above.

The culling IS happening, but it's being forced on other conferences as a more palatable measure. When the dust settles, the rump portions of the B12 and the Pac 12 and the ACC will be cut out as dead weight. Those that just happened to fit into the B10 or SEC by good fortune will get to hang on and take their Ls.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:49 pm How does the SEC and the Big 10 shave off current members like Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Vandy, South Carolina, Mississippi State, and Kentucky. None of these schools add any value from a football perspective.

Just putting this question out here again. Didn’t want it to get loss in the shuffle. Can these conferences force members out without starting a new conference? What kind of payoff would this be?
Not trying to be a jerk but this was discussed in several instances by at least 3 or 4 people on the previous pages of this thread, so various folks' opinions are already there...
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:49 pm How does the SEC and the Big 10 shave off current members like Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Vandy, South Carolina, Mississippi State, and Kentucky. None of these schools add any value from a football perspective.

Just putting this question out here again. Didn’t want it to get loss in the shuffle. Can these conferences force members out without starting a new conference? What kind of payoff would this be?
It's always possible. Just ask Temple. As for the brand name, do we play in the Big East?

Money solves all, one way or the other. Either the new superconferences require commitments (financial or otherwise) that those schools can't meet, buy them out, or leave and form a new conference, and then buy back the name once the remnants see that it no longer has the same value with just them in it.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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I know this is football driven, but the SEC is not getting rid of UK because of basketball
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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FW wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:41 pm I know this is football driven, but the SEC is not getting rid of UK because of basketball
FW, I certainly thought about that with KY and IN. But is anything sacred when it comes to football. If these two universities played football in the AAC, would there fan bases even care?
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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Guys, thank you for the answers above. Very interesting opinions and how this shakes out will all come down to money. I am guessing the only way these schools will be cut loose depends on the money they are guaranteed on with or without basis. How much does attendance even matter in a super league? Do game day losses eclipse guaranteed money at the end of the day?
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:16 am
tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:13 am
PeteRasche wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:22 am
waverider wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:12 am
long green wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:11 am Big Ten making a play for Notre Dame.
Not surprised. I had a feeling that would be a big push by them.
I thought that had been vehemently opposed for decades by several of the big schools in the conference?
No conference in its right mind would turn away Notre Dame.
No but the ACC has notre dame locked down for the time being. When they were allowed to join the acc for only 2020 they signed a clause saying they couldn't join any other conference for something like 8 years. So they can join the acc or nobody unless the acc goes away completely. I guess that's not totally outside the realm of possibilty
At some point they will be forced into a conference once 1 or 2 loss sec and Big10 teams start making the CFP regularly and ND can’t with their schedule.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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This is the best general take I've seen on the whole mess. Behind the Athletic pay wall, but it's how I feel. It's going to be really hard to care when we are no longer considered top level and my generation will be the last generation to have any fans of Tulane football at all. The things that made college football awesome are being killed off so that we can have a sanitized nfl Jr. Guess that's the way she goes.

https://theathletic.com/3396358/2022/07 ... ed-article
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:18 pm This is the best general take I've seen on the whole mess. Behind the Athletic pay wall, but it's how I feel. It's going to be really hard to care when we are no longer considered top level and my generation will be the last generation to have any fans of Tulane football at all. The things that made college football awesome are being killed off so that we can have a sanitized nfl Jr. Guess that's the way she goes.

https://theathletic.com/3396358/2022/07 ... ed-article
It sucks, but let’s see how this plays out. The Tier 2 teams at the end of the day may get a playoff berth as that will certainly expand. Problem is we have to make Tier 2 and pray the 85 limit is not expanded. I am not going to throw in the towel just yet. I wish Tulane, specifically TD, would give us fans a state of the union and what they plan to do moving forward. Throw us old timers a bone. The lack of communication is disheartening. They must have a plan, right?
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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ALERT!!!
 
The real question is “What role did TD play in making this happen for the Big10”
 
SARCASM!
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:51 pm
FW wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:41 pm I know this is football driven, but the SEC is not getting rid of UK because of basketball
FW, I certainly thought about that with KY and IN. But is anything sacred when it comes to football. If these two universities played football in the AAC, would there fan bases even care?
Probably not, but UK has been good for the past 10 years or so, and they average like 60K per game
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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FW wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:24 pm
tjtlja wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:51 pm
FW wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:41 pm I know this is football driven, but the SEC is not getting rid of UK because of basketball
FW, I certainly thought about that with KY and IN. But is anything sacred when it comes to football. If these two universities played football in the AAC, would there fan bases even care?
Probably not, but UK has been good for the past 10 years or so, and they average like 60K per game
I think we would avg 50K if we played in the SEC. Our facilities would be terrific and opposing fan bases would flock to New Orleans to spend a weekend. I think the argument should be what KY football would draw if their home schedule was Tulane, Tulsa, Memphis, ECU, Navy, and USF. We have more SEC football titles than KY, Vandy, Miss St, and South Carolina combined.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:33 pmI think we would avg 50K if we played in the SEC. Our facilities would be terrific and opposing fan bases would flock to New Orleans to spend a weekend. I think the argument should be what KY football would draw if their home schedule was Tulane, Tulsa, Memphis, ECU, Navy, and USF. We have more SEC football titles than KY, Vandy, Miss St, and South Carolina combined.
Maybe, and my nostalgia persuades me that the SEC is where we belong. But the problem is that many other programs could make that argument in good faith, but there is no financial incentive for the SEC to gamble on inviting us or those other programs, either. They are already making money, and the incentive for them is to grab revenue that they can already count in someone else's wallet. It's a lot easier to make a case for adding the television viewers and brand reputation of Texas, OU, North Carolina, Clemson, than to speculate on marginal value in Tulane, ULL, Texas Tech, Ga. Tech, Memphis, Troy, Rice, SMU, etc., some of which have long histories of on-field competition with SEC organizations. So they take the easy money. They aren't missing an obvious bet.

That's what makes me most sad about this; it's reality knocking us on the head. The SEC isn't wrong according to its most important metric: dollars. If you want to look at more reality, consider what fields of study most tuition-paying students take degrees in, and compare that with university degrees awarded 50 or 100 years ago. Schools have offered degrees where they think they can attract students, i.e., revenue. That's the whole story.

There are good arguments for why those things shouldn't be as they are, or not entirely as they are, but those arguments don't get much hearing come budget time.

Apologies if this sounds morose. I'm not enjoying reality much just now.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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Just curious, how does this effect you going forward knowing Tulane football will likely be irrelevant?

Have you heard anything from Tulane athletics as to what they are thinking? I find the lack of communication (as I have stated several times) discouraging. It’s as though they have completely disconnected from the fan base. That is a real bummer.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:36 pm Just curious, how does this effect you going forward knowing Tulane football will likely be irrelevant?

Have you heard anything from Tulane athletics as to what they are thinking? I find the lack of communication (as I have stated several times) discouraging. It’s as though they have completely disconnected from the fan base. That is a real bummer an.
Nothing that has happened in the last few days makes us anymore “irrelevant” or “relevant” than we were a week, a month, or ten years ago. We have no idea how this will play out. If we wind up with thirty or forty colleges effectively walling themselves off from everyone else and trying to create some sort of super duper media driven revenue centric version of pro football played nominally in the name of an academic institution I’m quite sure we won’t be in there and we will have a lot of company that I would not mind at all being thrown in with. I like college ball. That will be college ball, and do not underestimate the amount of people who will prefer it. If this just continues the reshuffle of conference composition we have seen from such moves in the past then odds are we will have a chance to better our lot rather than wind up worse off. If this is really the death of college football then we will wind up just like everyone else. If this is as I think a pendulum swing that will ultimately produce a pendulum swing in the opposite direction then it doesn’t mean that much. One thing I am fairly confident about, Tulane fans will still be Tulane fans and I would still rather cheer for my school than be band wagon supporter of someone just based on how many games they win.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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Wavefan, no doubt it. Excellent synopsis.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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Saw this going around on Twitter and thought it sums up the long term effects of conference realignment from the fan perspective.

Image

https://twitter.com/jimmweber/status/15 ... ga4whY0sWQ
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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tjtlja wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm Wavefan, no doubt it. Excellent synopsis.
Hear, hear.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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long green wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:50 pm
tjtlja wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm Wavefan, no doubt it. Excellent synopsis.
Hear, hear.
Bravo!
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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Wavefan wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:02 pm ...I would still rather cheer for my school than be band wagon supporter of someone just based on how many games they win.
...Or their attendance numbers.
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Re: USC UCLA to the Big 10

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The dude quoted from WVU above makes seemingly good points, but it also depends on the school and the make-up of the crowd. Is the crowd, both at the time and down the road, dependent on students? Or is it more made up of locals, who may or may not be alumni? WVU - and I'd say most schools with huge fanbases - rely heavily on locals to fill their stadiums; many of whom did not attend the school. Those folks absolutely are more interested in playing nearby schools, regional schools, rival schools. It's the same reason why every time we rehash the OOC schedule debate or the conference realignment debate, there are some New Orleanians here who want us in a conference with USM or ULL, and pretty much everyone here who doesn't live in the region is utterly disinterested in that. For a school like Tulane that is always going to have a spread out fanbase, we are always worried about how to get the students engaged so that they are engaged alumni later, and just like those folks here who don't live near New Orleans, they'd rather be playing bigger names than schools that are specifically near Tulane (ULL, USM, etc.).

Long story short, the guy's comments probably apply more to fans who actually attend than to those who live far away and watch everything on TV anyway.

(it should also be noted that fan interest is always related to team success and WVU hasn't been good in a while so of course their games are getting "stale" to him)
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