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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:36 pm 
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That was absurd. 3 guys foul out all on questionable calls. Reynolds gets hammered twice in final 3 seconds and no call. Gutsy effort by everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:21 am 
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I can remember several times over the years thinking I had just watched the "worst" officiated game of all time. Tonight ranks right up there. Especially the non call against Cam in the last couple of seconds.
Just a side note......... I remember several years ago sitting in Turchin watching Ray Miller do balls and strikes and thinking he was doing the worst game I ever saw. A year or two later, again watching Miller behind home plate calling balls/strikes, thinking no this is the worst game ever.

As a Green Wave fan for a lot of years I have seen a lot of worsts.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:41 am 
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As a high school official for both football and wrestling, I’ll share some thoughts which might explain what we are seeing. Won’t fix them, but might help understand. Unfortunately there are no quick fixes.

Many of my fellow officials also officiate at the college level also, so I have a pretty good insight into that level. Can’t help you at the professional level.

Firstly, all officials at the high school and most colleges live locally. It just doesn’t pay enough to fly officials all over the country—at most a three or four hour drive from home base. So, you are going to see the same guys over and over. You are stuck with both the good and the badly skilled officials.

Secondly, the sorts of guys who officiate self select. No one comes knocking at your door. Most are former athletes, former coaches, etc. who for whatever reason decide they want to do this, spend the money on the required gear, spend awhile apprenticing at the pee wee or rec league level, all the while attending night and weekend training classes, all for at most $50-$100/game, including travel. Most guys drop out after a year or two for a multiple of reasons, not the least of which is tiring from the abuse from parents, fans, and coaches. The ones who stick have thicker skins and a perverse delight in letting the cr@p roll off.

Thirdly, numbers. See #2 above. Most officiating cadres struggle with numbers. Football in particular uses 6 or 7 officials per game and since most games occur on the same weekday/weekend, you might have real problems filling slots with warm bodies, let alone your “best” officials, for 10+ simultaneous games. My football officials organization has to scramble some Friday nights. I have no doubt every officiating organization has problems with warm bodies since most games or matches occur simultaneously. Wrestling tournaments in particular are a scramble. The reason you see the same guys who you hate is because that’s all there is, assigned by proximity. Unless he does something particularly egregious causing his organization to pull his cert, he’s who you have,

Fourth, bias. I have the distinct advantage in officiating because I am a “come here” rather than a “from here”. I moved to the Maryland Eastern Shore well after my daughter was past school age. I have no ties, loyalties, or preference for one school, family, or neighborhood. You tribal Catholic high school New Orleans folks might have a steeper hill to climb there. When I am doing pregame preps with fellow officials I have to ask about rivalries and any potential bad blood. I cringe when I see officials grab-@ssing with coaches, etc. I never want to give the impression of potential preference but I understand that people in communities may know one another—I just do not think it appropriate before a game.

The only solution is for you and your fellow sports nuts to become officials too or to encourage others to do so. It’s not easy, believe me. And it’s for pocket change. I like it but then I was always a glutton for punishment. I was a submariner.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:30 pm 
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TUPF, that is a fantastic post, through and through. Thanks for writing that.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:17 pm 
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not really disputing the overall content of TUPF's post at all...but the 3 refs last night for Tulane vs. Tulsa had not officiated a Tulsa home game (conference or non conference) this entire season. I just checked all the box scores. Refs were: Anthony Jordan, Kelly Self, Raymond Styons.
Styons owns an insurance agency in Greenville NC. He has been refereeing since 1991 and didn't get a chance to call an NCAA tourney game until 2012.

Here is an article about him: http://www.starnewsonline.com/sports/20 ... ep-working

Kelly Self seems to be based in Oklahoma and has called Big 12 games from what I can glean from a google search. He seems to be an ex-high school coach at Del City High in Oklahoma.

Anthony Jordan, or at least a ref by that name who looks a lot like the ref who called the Tu vs. Tulsa game, worked briefly in the NBA 15 years ago and more recently has been calling college games. Might be worth asking Dunleavy if he has any knowledge of Jordan's brief NBA stint and whether indeed that's the same ref doing some AAC games.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:34 pm 
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randymc wrote:
not really disputing the overall content of TUPF's post at all...but the 3 refs last night for Tulane vs. Tulsa had not officiated a Tulsa home game (conference or non conference) this entire season. I just checked all the box scores. Refs were: Anthony Jordan, Kelly Self, Raymond Styons.
Styons owns an insurance agency in Greenville NC. He has been refereeing since 1991 and didn't get a chance to call an NCAA tourney game until 2012.

Here is an article about him: http://www.starnewsonline.com/sports/20 ... ep-working

Kelly Self seems to be based in Oklahoma and has called Big 12 games from what I can glean from a google search. He seems to be an ex-high school coach at Del City High in Oklahoma.

Anthony Jordan, or at least a ref by that name who looks a lot like the ref who called the Tu vs. Tulsa game, worked briefly in the NBA 15 years ago and more recently has been calling college games. Might be worth asking Dunleavy if he has any knowledge of Jordan's brief NBA stint and whether indeed that's the same ref doing some AAC games.

Glad you posted that: it highlights another problem moreso at the college level than either the pro or high school level. At my level, because our organization is small, we tend to have worked together. Some high school officials organizations mandate that crews stay together for an entire season. Mine does not to try to spread the experience base but for the most part we know one another and have done games together. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the pros keep crews together except for the playoffs, when they choose supposedly all-star crews. It’s their (almost) full time job, moreso than college or HS officials.

In the middle of those two levels is D1 college, where officials tend to travel more just because there are fewer colleges than high schools, spread out more. Many of those crews meet for the first time in pregame. Communication and mechanics can suffer. Experience levels vary widely, as randymc points out.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:00 pm 
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TUPF wrote:
randymc wrote:
not really disputing the overall content of TUPF's post at all...but the 3 refs last night for Tulane vs. Tulsa had not officiated a Tulsa home game (conference or non conference) this entire season. I just checked all the box scores. Refs were: Anthony Jordan, Kelly Self, Raymond Styons.
Styons owns an insurance agency in Greenville NC. He has been refereeing since 1991 and didn't get a chance to call an NCAA tourney game until 2012.

Here is an article about him: http://www.starnewsonline.com/sports/20 ... ep-working

Kelly Self seems to be based in Oklahoma and has called Big 12 games from what I can glean from a google search. He seems to be an ex-high school coach at Del City High in Oklahoma.

Anthony Jordan, or at least a ref by that name who looks a lot like the ref who called the Tu vs. Tulsa game, worked briefly in the NBA 15 years ago and more recently has been calling college games. Might be worth asking Dunleavy if he has any knowledge of Jordan's brief NBA stint and whether indeed that's the same ref doing some AAC games.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the pros keep crews together except for the playoffs, when they choose supposedly all-star crews.
Football yes, basketball no.


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