Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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Rotorooter
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Rotorooter »

PCWave wrote:I know squat about basketball (I HATE this time of year in sports). My opinion is based solely on the fact the Frazier did not CARRY the team to much success this season. I would expect an NBA first rounder to do that.
I agree with PCWave. Frazier has not shown me that he could not carry the team, especially in crunch time. Raw talent is overrated, especially if it is not overwhelming to competition. Frazier will be no more than a bit player, at best. Probably a defensive specialist, unless he improves his outside shot.

All that being said, if some team is willing to pay Melvin 7 figures, he'd be crazy not to take it. I cannot think of a better advisor than Mike Dunleavy.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by WaveProf »

GB— I’m not trying to debate, nor want to invest the time. I’m just truly shocked that very many people DON’T feel that way

Ml- The number of innings is obviously subjective, but it is at least the same for both teams. Either way a clock doesn’t run out. You keep hitting, you keep scoring.
Last edited by WaveProf on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Baywave1 »

The more innings you play then you give the better team more chances to win. Same as series with more games. The number of unexpected results is directly related to the size of the sample.

So in that sense 6 or 8 innings is more arbitrary and 10 is less. But obviously all game limits are arbitrary even five day cricket test matches.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Roller »

GreenieBacker wrote:it's like the "winner" was just fortunate to be ahead when time ran out

you mean like in baseball where whoever happens to be ahead at the end of nine inniings is the winner, or in football at the end of the Fourth Quarter? Seriously some of these arguments are a little odd, to say the least.

PCWave, while I completely understand enjoying and liking one sport more than another to think College Basketball lacks strategy or drama is simply wrong. Like in many sports its about creating the mismatch, getting the other team to play your game and putting the game in the hands of your best player(s).
You seized upon a minor point from my post. My primary point was that the final point differential is almost always minuscule, when compared to the total points scored--it's a game where points are scored 2 at a time (basically), and teams routinely score 80+ points. That's pretty much different from all other major sports. I would find the game more interesting if there was less scoring.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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TUPF wrote:I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
Wait...that’s what we were running under Conroy.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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MattK wrote:
TUPF wrote:I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
Wait...that’s what we were running under Conroy.
With one exception. Dean Smith’s boys would usually score on an easy layup after lulling the opposing team to sleep by passing the ball around for 5 minutes. Conroy’s Four Corners variant was run the clock down to 3 seconds and then jack up a no-prayer three from the parking lot.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Roller »

TUPF wrote:
MattK wrote:
TUPF wrote:I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
Wait...that’s what we were running under Conroy.
With one exception. Dean Smith’s boys would usually score on an easy layup after lulling the opposing team to sleep by passing the ball around for 5 minutes. Conroy’s Four Corners variant was run the clock down to 3 seconds and then jack up a no-prayer three from the parking lot.
That's why my thoughts included a set-back from the goal that would eliminate layups and dunks. I might even suggest that the goals be placed 8 feet beyond the end line, and players be required to land inbounds after shooting.

But I am FAR from a student of the game, and I know so little about the "finer points" that any ideas I may have will be wide open to criticism. But I still think I would prefer to see a game where accurate
shooters were the top dogs and quickness and crisp passing were important.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Rotorooter »

Roller wrote:
TUPF wrote:
MattK wrote:
TUPF wrote:I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
Wait...that’s what we were running under Conroy.
With one exception. Dean Smith’s boys would usually score on an easy layup after lulling the opposing team to sleep by passing the ball around for 5 minutes. Conroy’s Four Corners variant was run the clock down to 3 seconds and then jack up a no-prayer three from the parking lot.
That's why my thoughts included a set-back from the goal that would eliminate layups and dunks. I might even suggest that the goals be placed 8 feet beyond the end line, and players be required to land inbounds after shooting.

But I am FAR from a student of the game, and I know so little about the "finer points" that any ideas I may have will be wide open to criticism. But I still think I would prefer to see a game where accurate
shooters were the top dogs and quickness and crisp passing were important.
Then watch the U. of Michigan. John Beilein is a throwback. They'll be in the tourney. I love to watch his teams' style of play. What's old is new again.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by windywave »

Rotorooter wrote:
Roller wrote:
TUPF wrote:
MattK wrote:
TUPF wrote:I don’t know, Roller. Many of us remember the pre shot clock days of Dean Smith and the hopefully never to be repeated Four Corners “offense”. Unless you wore Carolina blue, you wanted to gouge your eyes out. :roll:
Wait...that’s what we were running under Conroy.
With one exception. Dean Smith’s boys would usually score on an easy layup after lulling the opposing team to sleep by passing the ball around for 5 minutes. Conroy’s Four Corners variant was run the clock down to 3 seconds and then jack up a no-prayer three from the parking lot.
That's why my thoughts included a set-back from the goal that would eliminate layups and dunks. I might even suggest that the goals be placed 8 feet beyond the end line, and players be required to land inbounds after shooting.

But I am FAR from a student of the game, and I know so little about the "finer points" that any ideas I may have will be wide open to criticism. But I still think I would prefer to see a game where accurate
shooters were the top dogs and quickness and crisp passing were important.
Then watch the U. of Michigan. John Beilein is a throwback. They'll be in the tourney. I love to watch his teams' style of play. What's old is new again.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by long green »

Yeah, but they suck this year.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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long green wrote:Yeah, but they suck this year.
The last decade or so?
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by long green »

windywave wrote:
long green wrote:Yeah, but they suck this year.
The last decade or so?
The poster citing Michigan was bringing up an example of a team fans could watch in THIS year's tournament. Wisconsin was an irrelevant program THIS year. You follow?
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by ml wave »

Really he should just watch the Golden State Warriors.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by windywave »

long green wrote:
windywave wrote:
long green wrote:Yeah, but they suck this year.
The last decade or so?
The poster citing Michigan was bringing up an example of a team fans could watch in THIS year's tournament. Wisconsin was an irrelevant program THIS year. You follow?
Wisconsin is old school more than Michigan ia my point
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by ml wave »

Baywave1 wrote:The more innings you play then you give the better team more chances to win. Same as series with more games. The number of unexpected results is directly related to the size of the sample.

So in that sense 6 or 8 innings is more arbitrary and 10 is less. But obviously all game limits are arbitrary even five day cricket test matches.
So you'd agree that the results of a basketball game with ~90-100 possessions per team is less arbitrary than a baseball game with ~35-40 plate appearances?

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Baywave1 »

ml wave wrote:
Baywave1 wrote:The more innings you play then you give the better team more chances to win. Same as series with more games. The number of unexpected results is directly related to the size of the sample.

So in that sense 6 or 8 innings is more arbitrary and 10 is less. But obviously all game limits are arbitrary even five day cricket test matches.
So you'd agree that the results of a basketball game with ~90-100 possessions per team is less arbitrary than a baseball game with ~35-40 plate appearances?
No. I'd agree a basketball game of 40 minutes is generally less arbitrary than one of 20 minutes. I'll defer to my betters as to whether an average NBA game is less arbitrary than an average MLB game or apples taste better than oranges.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by sr »

Melvin says good bye .... w/o an agent.

https://twitter.com/melvinjrrr/status/9 ... 5915540482

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

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sr wrote:Melvin says good bye .... w/o an agent.

https://twitter.com/melvinjrrr/status/9 ... 5915540482
That's kind of what we'd expect right? That way if his draft grade drops he can return to school?

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Johnny Mac »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:
sr wrote:Melvin says good bye .... w/o an agent.

https://twitter.com/melvinjrrr/status/9 ... 5915540482
That's kind of what we'd expect right? That way if his draft grade drops he can return to school?
not sure how it hasn't dropped already... 2nd team all AAC doesn't really equate with "first round NBA pick"
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by NJwave »

The experience will good for him whether he sticks in the draft or comes back. I started this thread by saying I wouldn't take him in the first round and I stick by it. However, nobody pays me to evaluate talent.

For Tulane's sake we really need him to come back.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by ml wave »

Johnny Mac wrote:
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
sr wrote:Melvin says good bye .... w/o an agent.

https://twitter.com/melvinjrrr/status/9 ... 5915540482
That's kind of what we'd expect right? That way if his draft grade drops he can return to school?
not sure how it hasn't dropped already... 2nd team all AAC doesn't really equate with "first round NBA pick"
There's not 1 NBA team out of 30 that could care any less about post season conference honors.

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by Shu40 »

Melvin up to no 19 in the Ringer list of top prospects

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.3 ... 1488480980

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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by GreenieBacker »

Wow :shock:

I have to admit I'm a little shocked and I watched him play for 3 years and enjoyed every bit of it.
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Re: Would you draft Frazier in the first round?

Post by TulaneTiger »

Johnny Mac wrote:
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
sr wrote:Melvin says good bye .... w/o an agent.

https://twitter.com/melvinjrrr/status/9 ... 5915540482
That's kind of what we'd expect right? That way if his draft grade drops he can return to school?
not sure how it hasn't dropped already... 2nd team all AAC doesn't really equate with "first round NBA pick"
Paul George was Second-Team All-WAC the season he declared for the draft.

George: 16.8 ppg, 7.2 rebs/game, 3.0 assists/game, 2.2 steals/game, elite defender, 35% from three-point line
Frazier: 15.9 ppg, 5.6 rebs/game, 2.9 assists/game, 2.1 steals/game, elite defender, 38% from three-point line


College accolades really don't necessarily mean much in terms of your draft stock.

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