State of Tulane Baseball Program

[tjtlja]

The bottom line to all of this is really simple. We had a lot of talent the past two years and the majority of that talent was the result of one man and his staff and of course that was Rick Jones. What he accomplished at Tulane was a miracle. Somehow he figured it out and was not only a great coach, but a great talent evaluator who surrounded himself with tremendous assistants like Schlossnagle, Kingston, Cleary, Gouldsmith, Gautreau, Mohl, Riser, Sutter, Boggs, and I am probably missing several others.

When Pierce took the job, he had no idea what he was getting into with regards to allocating money to put a baseball team together at Tulane University. That was never an issue for him at Rice, and of course, Sam Houston State. His long time assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator Sean Allen thought it was impossible to build a title contending team at Tulane and took an assistant coaching position at Alabama before resigning to join Pierce at Texas one week later.

Coach Jewett is working under the same restrictions and he must be in a state of shock coming from Vanderbilt. Folks, there are no other comparisons. No one that has the fan support, tradition, and stadium we have does it our way. That includes every private D1 that is a player in college baseball. Until our ADMINISTRATION is on board and helps these kids foot a $65k annual fee, we will flounder. Only Rick Jones could figure this out. Until someone at Tulane cares enough or has the power to change the flow of money to future baseball recruits, I don’t see us as a major player and that sucks!

[Fanowave]

Amen.

[Fanowave]

We are now below ULL, S.E. and USM. How low must we go?

[Fanowave]

Oh yeah, I forgot UNO. Can't wait to see LSU beat down.

[Wavemania]

Not going to turn around anytime soon. Until someone with big BIG bucks comes along and demands accountability from Dannen and the Tulane admnistration, this will be what you get in basically all major sports for Tulane.

[Fanowave]

A Les Miles moment!

[visualmagic]

It worked out ok for us in the short term with RJ stepping down but it could have been better for us long term to see if he could turn it around with that Alemais and Rogers recruiting class.

[PeteRasche]

(...)that of course that was Rick Jones. What he accomplished at Tulane was a miracle. Somehow he figured it out and was not only a great coach, but a great talent evaluator who surrounded himself with tremendous assistants like Schlossnagle, Kingston, Cleary, Gouldsmith, Gautreau, Mohl, Riser, Sutter, Boggs, and I am probably missing several others.

(...)Only Rick Jones could figure this out.(...)

That's a nice bit of revisionist history. Yes, Rick Jones figured out how to make Tulane a winner - before the transfer and scholarship rules changed (using the talents you mention above). Once the rules changed, Rick Jones couldn't do it either, and lived on the reputation of our program from prior years. As that history faded away, our teams declined until he eventually resigned. Pierce was a good enough coach - better than Jones at the end, considering he won with guys that Jones did not - and was able to take the last remaining classes of Jones and mold them into a winner for a year, but then he left. Jewett can no longer live on the reputation of the 00's when our success made recruiting easier; today's recruits were in preschool when we went to the CWS.

If Rick Jones had the easy cure to the current state of college baseball at a school like Tulane, he'd tell someone. It's not like he left for another school or left on bad terms with burned bridges.

[visualmagic]

(...)that of course that was Rick Jones. What he accomplished at Tulane was a miracle. Somehow he figured it out and was not only a great coach, but a great talent evaluator who surrounded himself with tremendous assistants like Schlossnagle, Kingston, Cleary, Gouldsmith, Gautreau, Mohl, Riser, Sutter, Boggs, and I am probably missing several others.

(...)Only Rick Jones could figure this out.(...)

That's a nice bit of revisionist history. Yes, Rick Jones figured out how to make Tulane a winner - before the transfer and scholarship rules changed (using the talents you mention above). Once the rules changed, Rick Jones couldn't do it either, and lived on the reputation of our program from prior years. As that history faded away, our teams declined until he eventually resigned. Pierce was a good enough coach - better than Jones at the end, considering he won with guys that Jones did not - and was able to take the last remaining classes of Jones and mold them into a winner for a year, but then he left. Jewett can no longer live on the reputation of the 00's when our success made recruiting easier; today's recruits were in preschool when we went to the CWS.

If Rick Jones had the easy cure to the current state of college baseball at a school like Tulane, he'd tell someone. It's not like he left for another school or left on bad terms with burned bridges.

While technically true that Pierce won with the players that Jones did not, Jones didn’t really get a shot to. We weren’t winning with all those guys as freshman no matter who was the coach, IMO.
Like I said in the post above, obviously getting Pierce worked out pretty dang well but it would have been nice to see if Jones could win with those guys as Sophomores and beyond. Maybe he couldn’t have, but if he could have, we’d obviously be better off than we are now.

[waverider]

Not going to turn around anytime soon. Until someone with big BIG bucks comes along and demands accountability from Dannen and the Tulane admnistration, this will be what you get in basically all major sports for Tulane.

i don’t have to point out how completely false this post is, but will remind everyone that Dannen has said repeatedly that his job is tied to football’s success (as it should be). No AD at a football playing school has his job tied to the baseball program. Especially one at an expensive private university that has to recruit a certain type of student athlete.

Baseball’s focus from an AD should be somewhere after men’s basketball, but ahead of bowling, track, tennis, etc.

[Johnny Mac]

I think the reason Jewett got the job over other candidates was because it was perceived he could navigate the landmines associated with a private school and limited scholarship resources... but he's not a good coach. Not sure if the talent is there or not because this guy is so mind boggling bad in game situations, it's really hard to tell.

Someone said this before, but how the fornicate can DIVISION ONE pitchers NOT throw strikes? Is it a sheety pitching coach? Are the kids just not D-1 talent? What is it? But the pitching decisions.. the decisions to let banjo hitters come to the plate with the bases loaded in the bottom of extras only to see us go out with a whimper and blow it the next inning.. I mean, when the fork is the light bulb going to illuminate above his head?

I'm all for giving a guy time to build a program.. but the ship is taking on water and is listing severely to one side.

[tjtlja]

A couple of things -

1. No, Dannen’s success will not be tied to baseball. But at Tulane where baseball has always been a winner, play in a beautiful facility, and draw more fans than any other sport on campus other than football, to ignore its relevance and down play its importance to the Tulane community is foolish. We were a national player in this sport. No other sport on our campus can remotely compare to the national accomplishments of baseball for most of my adult life. And I think Dannen should be doing everything in his power to get the ATTENTION of the ADMINISTRATION to fully support our baseball program. If he isnt, then he is not doing his job.

2. As far as the end of the Rick Jones era, some things need to be said. Were the rules a little different when he was building those teams, yes, but every team that I know of playing D1 baseball at that time were playing under the same set of rules. You know what was not different, Tulane was one of the priciest schools in the country and the administration did not support baseball like other schools with a similar profile. Coach Jones was able to not only win, but compete with LSU, Fullerton, Texas, USC, Oregon State, Florida State, Oklahoma State, Pepperdine, Arizona State, Miami FL, Georgia Tech, Rice, etc. (no reason to even mention any teams in our own conference).

From a historical standpoint, this little thing called Katrina came along and not only did it destroy New Orleans, but it set our baseball team back 5-6 years. Then 2013 and 2014 came along and Coach Jones managed to sign Massey, Gibbs, Merrill, Alemais, Country, Wilsey, Kaplan, Brown, Rogers, Rankin, France, and Hope in a period of time where the end of his career was quickly approaching. That class was the backbone of the 2016 team which could have definitely made it to Omaha. Coach Jones was able to put that class together after the Katrina years and declining health issues. That group struggled in 2014. Jake hit a combined .220 in those first two years coupled with similar numbers across the board for just about everyone on that team, however, the pitching was good enough. But in 2016, that group coupled with the football additions of Carthon and Simms, Deuster, Spoon, and Massey were ready to compete on a national level AGAIN. I often wonder what additions Coach Jones would have added in 2015 and 2016 if he were still the head coach, and perhaps those additions would have indeed led the Wave back to Omaha. The notion that what Coach Jones did at Tulane for two decades was because of the rules in play at that time is pretty incomprehensible to me.

In conclusion, baseball needs administrative support to succeed on a national level. If the program doesn’t get it, then it truly sucks.

[1309th WAVE]

you think they read the posts today?

[tjtlja]

I hope so. Looks like a blowout. Long Beach is not very good.

[Wavemania]

Not going to turn around anytime soon. Until someone with big BIG bucks comes along and demands accountability from Dannen and the Tulane admnistration, this will be what you get in basically all major sports for Tulane.

i don’t have to point out how completely false this post is, but will remind everyone that Dannen has said repeatedly that his job is tied to football’s success (as it should be). No AD at a football playing school has his job tied to the baseball program. Especially one at an expensive private university that has to recruit a certain type of student athlete.

Baseball’s focus from an AD should be somewhere after men’s basketball, but ahead of bowling, track, tennis, etc.

I stated the major sports. When was the last time Tulane made a serious run in the NCAA basketball tournament? Football has been a dumpster fire for 20 years and more since Bowden left. As for Baseball, I could live with an occasional NCAA appearance, if the other 2 made some noise. But leave it the way it is going, and this sport becomes just as irrelevant as the other 2.

[BACONWAVE]

A couple of things -

1. No, Dannen’s success will not be tied to baseball. But at Tulane where baseball has always been a winner, play in a beautiful facility, and draw more fans than any other sport on campus other than football, to ignore its relevance and down play its importance to the Tulane community is foolish. We were a national player in this sport. No other sport on our campus can remotely compare to the national accomplishments of baseball for most of my adult life. And I think Dannen should be doing everything in his power to get the ATTENTION of the ADMINISTRATION to fully support our baseball program. If he isnt, then he is not doing his job.

2. As far as the end of the Rick Jones era, some things need to be said. Were the rules a little different when he was building those teams, yes, but every team that I know of playing D1 baseball at that time were playing under the same set of rules. You know what was not different, Tulane was one of the priciest schools in the country and the administration did not support baseball like other schools with a similar profile. Coach Jones was able to not only win, but compete with LSU, Fullerton, Texas, USC, Oregon State, Florida State, Oklahoma State, Pepperdine, Arizona State, Miami FL, Georgia Tech, Rice, etc. (no reason to even mention any teams in our own conference).

From a historical standpoint, this little thing called Katrina came along and not only did it destroy New Orleans, but it set our baseball team back 5-6 years. Then 2013 and 2014 came along and Coach Jones managed to sign Massey, Gibbs, Merrill, Alemais, Country, Wilsey, Kaplan, Brown, Rogers, Rankin, France, and Hope in a period of time where the end of his career was quickly approaching. That class was the backbone of the 2016 team which could have definitely made it to Omaha. Coach Jones was able to put that class together after the Katrina years and declining health issues. That group struggled in 2014. Jake hit a combined .220 in those first two years coupled with similar numbers across the board for just about everyone on that team, however, the pitching was good enough. But in 2016, that group coupled with the football additions of Carthon and Simms, Deuster, Spoon, and Massey were ready to compete on a national level AGAIN. I often wonder what additions Coach Jones would have added in 2015 and 2016 if he were still the head coach, and perhaps those additions would have indeed led the Wave back to Omaha. The notion that what Coach Jones did at Tulane for two decades was because of the rules in play at that time is pretty incomprehensible to me.

In conclusion, baseball needs administrative support to succeed on a national level. If the program doesn’t get it, then it truly sucks.

[QuarterbackU]

Here comes the 14 game winning streak, right on schedule....

[gerryb323]

Can we have it both ways? We're giving credit to Jones for bringing in the awesome players who just weren't ready to win as freshmen because freshmen obviously can't contribute at high levels. But now we're saying Big Jew should be able to turn around the squad with almost all new players from 2 years ago. Can both be reasonable? Seriously asking

[tjtlja]

Gerry, for sure you can have it both ways. Especially next year when entire class will be probably be freshman.

[visualmagic]

Can we have it both ways? We're giving credit to Jones for bringing in the awesome players who just weren't ready to win as freshmen because freshmen obviously can't contribute at high levels. But now we're saying Big Jew should be able to turn around the squad with almost all new players from 2 years ago. Can both be reasonable? Seriously asking

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, are you saying that we should look at this year for Jewett like we look at 2014 for RJ and not expect too much? I don’t think that’s too crazy. I know I didn’t expect anything from this team looking at all that we lost from last year. Big Jew would have much less pressure to put out a respectable team this season if last season wasn’t such an unmitigated disaster.

But here’s a reason why it’s tough to look at this year like the 2014 season. I’m not sure this year’s roster really compares to that 2014 roster. We aren’t relying on too many freshman this year. Jewett brought in a ton of transfers to avoid that. We have 1 or 2 freshman in the lineup on most days. Bates starting in the midweek games. Pellerin in some high leverage spots out of the pen occasionally. That’s about it. Whereas in 2014, it was a freshman at C, 2B, SS, 3B, and 1 in the OF, Merrill and France both in the rotation at times.

[Baywave1]

I'm following my own advice and replying with my thoughts about Tulane's tuition policy in a non-game thread. I hate it because for 30+ years now, it has gone hand in hand with turning Tulane from having a significant Louisiana native student body to a national one with many fewer locals and divorcing it from strong integration with the human capital of New Orleans and Louisiana. How many posters here parents went to Tulane? How many of your children do?

Vandy and Rice today can stack scholarships for baseball players because endowments allow them to subsidize tuition for all middle class students, athletes and not. Off the cuff, Tulane would need a billion dollars more in endowment money devoted to undergraduate student aid to match that policy. That ain't happening or Tulane would have made it part of current capital campaign.

I think it is more likely as a longshot to work to change NCAA rules to grant say 25 full scholarships (no partials) with terms similar to football and basketball.

Still a longshot but that's doable. That would require Tulane to add an equal number of women's sport schollies to fill the gap between today's 13+ and 25 (so maybe it adds soccer or softball or the like.) Since tuition doesn't cost anything cash wise, you're speaking about room and board and the like and the cost for a new woman's minor sport. Say that runs to $1 million total out of pocket annually if that. Not poker ante money but not bankrupting either. You could fund that with a $50 million increase in endowment if you didn't raise one million dollars annually on the margin.

P5 schools are rolling in the dough and might just agree to it. Again this longshot is more likely than getting a billion dollar endowment donation. It would be harder to have overall NCAA membership to approve it but if P5 breaks off then AAC will do its best to jump in that boat too. Tulane has baseball facilities and reputation. Place it on equal footing for recruiting players and MLTN, it would succeed again on the field.

So do you want a billion dollar pipe dream solution or something that costs 1/20th or more likely even less?

I'm just trying to show a way out of this wilderness without needing Moses or lamenting like Jeremiah or worst of all bit@#ing like Job. (Hey, it's Lent. I couldn't help it!!)

In short, it's ok to be peasants with pitchforks around here, but let's at least threaten riots for solutions that are achievable. Meanwhile I'm focusing about how Tulane can beat LSU on Wednesday......

[tjtlja]

Well, I surely don’t know 1/1000th of what you know about Tulane’s endowment and future financial endeavors and the number of women’s sports that would need to be added. I am just one of the peasants that had a kid who played baseball that graduated from Tulane. And this peasant was always trying to negotiate a workable number so that we didn’t have to take a second mortgage to get our kid thru the school he wanted to attend.

I look at it like this. We can give out 11.7 scholarships per year in baseball. If the goal would be to fully fund 30 players, that would leave 18.3 players per year needing financial assistance. The price tag per year for 18.3 players at $65k would total $1.2M annually. Roughly, that probably equates to the salaries of our offensive and defensive coordinators in football. They can call it need based income, academic income, endowment funds, or whatever they want.

If that is doable, we would be a national player overnight and the increase in attendance and all the associated benefits that comes with that (including free publicity) would probably reduce that $1.2M significantly.

Now I don’t know if this can work within the Tulane model without causing some economic crisis, but my experience with the baseball coaches and the financial office never indicated that this could not be done. The answer given was internal policy does not allow us to stack need based income on top of athletic scholarship income. If need based income was greater than scholarship money, you take need based income and free up a scholarship. If you took need based income, academic money could be stacked. The entire process drove the previous staff crazy.

Bottom line is baseball will flourish with some financial support from the school and I don’t think the actual annual cost is unreasonable.

[Baywave1]

Again tuition waivers (which is what an athletic scholarship is) costs Tulane nothing if they are simply adding a desk in a classroom. The "$1.2 million" you mention only matters if you are substituting the athlete for a full tuition paying student. Tulane does not lose one dollar in revenue nor have to hire one more teacher by adding 25 or 30 non-tuition paying students to its existing student body of thousands of students.

So you need to look at actual money out of pocket here for room, board, coaches, facilities, travel and the like if you must add a new Title IX sport. That's where the million dollar number came from. It's all about the cash actually expended.

I'm ok with 30 full scholarships but that is even less likely to happen than 25. The latter number works for MLB. Colleges can figure it out too.

Meanwhile back in the day, it cost the same out of pocket for a local to attend Tulane and live at home as it cost (pre-TOPS) to go to LSU and live in a dorm. That coming back is about as likely as Tulane adding $1 billion in endowment money for middle class scholarship aid like Vandy and Rice have. So unless and until NCAA makes baseball scholarships fully funded and reasonably numbered (at 25 or 30 or whatever), Tulane is just going to have to figure out how to work the problem. As you explain as a parent, that is not easy.

[GreenieBacker]

Baywave while I agree with you that an increase to a 25 scholie limit set by the NCAA would certainly help Tulane, don't forget that an equivalent number would have to be added in the Title IX sports. The problem may lie with those schools that don't field or care about baseball and how the current "Have's" in baseball feel it will affect them. Still, its much more of a realistic option than dreaming Tulane will reach, anytime soon, the kind of endowment that a Rice or Vandy has.

[FW]

Baywave while I agree with you that an increase to a 25 scholie limit set by the NCAA would certainly help Tulane, don't forget that an equivalent number would have to be added in the Title IX sports. The problem may lie with those schools that don't field or care about baseball and how the current "Have's" in baseball feel it will affect them. Still, its much more of a realistic option than dreaming Tulane will reach, anytime soon, the kind of endowment that a Rice or Vandy has.

It's not just endowment. Tulane's endowment is near $2 billion. Vandy is 4 and Rice is 5. It's not like they're Stanford, with $22 billion. I mean, if it were just by endowment, Duke, with 8 billion, would have a better baseball team.