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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:43 am 
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Just my guess I don't know anything but I also think that's why Perry Clark was encouraged to leave or they didn't try hard to keep him, he had a very large contract and was a "special assistant" to the President. I think he was making more than the President at some point. Now that we know Cowen's mindset towards athletics for sure, it makes complete sense that he would view a coach making more than him with disdain.

Imagine being the athletic director and having to work under the constraints he was placed under with resources far inferior to his conference mates.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:46 am 
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Perry also had direct access to the President without having to go through the AD, and Dickson wasn't very happy with that. A lot of egos at play here that had the effect of putting Tulane's interests a distant second.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am 
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Baywave1 wrote:
The early tell on SC even before/without the review was that Athletics was the only major University activity that he accepted mediocrity from. If you look at every other area of the University, if it underperformed without hesitation he replaced the managers in charge and/or took other direct action to improve it. When he found he did not have the political stroke to kill it through the review, he simply neglected it.

He replaced athletics' manager too: he fired Sandy Barbour. And gave us Dickson.
Another stellar move.
Now Barbour was a work-in-process and could have really used a strong #2 and some help. But she was also a talent, and Dickson was, well....

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:12 am 
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Baywave1 wrote:
Apparently Bowden and RR may have had same rep(s)/advisor(s). Let's just say that doesn't help number two candidate's status when number one candidate has already rejected the job offer (or in this case contract extension.)

Not saying this was a deciding factor, just an influencer that didn't help RR.

Are you saying this is a problem in general, or specifically that Cowen penalized RR for having the same agent as Bowden?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:19 am 
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On June 10th, 2003 was there even one fan who didn’t think Rick Dickson was a hero? I will go so far as to say that Sandy could not have done what he did then...and I don’t think I’m going very far. Dickson did not become a serious millstone around our necks until he held on to Bob Toledo after the 2009 season. I’m not saying he was perfect up to then. He made a poor, buddy-buddy hire in Finney & held on to him but it’s at least possible that RD did not relish making a post-review hire until he had to. That also have influenced his post-review extension of Scelfo’s contract.

Sandy did not have the support she needed but neither did Dickson, though he’s responsible for a lot if not all of that lack. And I’ll say this for Dickson: his response to the review was the football stadium. He was working on that when the storm hit. He lacked many, many of the things needed for a good AD but he had vision. Of the tunnel variety, but he had it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:26 am 
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RD had the gravitas to fight and save Div.1A sports at Tulane after the review in 2003. Sandy just didn't have that back then. It was RD's failings: his inability to hire good HC in any major sport (other than Pierce in baseball), his dysfunctional running of the athletic department, his inability to connect (or care about) the regular fan, etc. that did him in. And he stayed maybe 2-3 years too long. Hard to give RD a grade for his tenure at Tulane.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:29 am 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
RD had the gravitas to fight and save Div.1A sports at Tulane after the review in 2003. Sandy just didn't have that back then. It was RD's failings: his inability to hire good HC in any major sport (other than Pierce in baseball), his dysfunctional running of the athletic department, his inability to connect (or care about) the regular fan, etc. that did him in. And he stayed maybe 2-3 years too long. Hard to give RD a grade for his tenure at Tulane.


As a manager of competitive programs he could not have been much worse. But he saved the program in 2003, kept it going after the storm, and no Yulman almost certainly equals still being in CUSA.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:31 am 
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ml wave wrote:
Baywave1 wrote:
Apparently Bowden and RR may have had same rep(s)/advisor(s). Let's just say that doesn't help number two candidate's status when number one candidate has already rejected the job offer (or in this case contract extension.)

Not saying this was a deciding factor, just an influencer that didn't help RR.

Are you saying this is a problem in general, or specifically that Cowen penalized RR for having the same agent as Bowden?



You're an experienced guy. You think it's any easier to negotiate a marriage and dowry with daughter number two after the deal with daughter number one hits snags?

Sure Jacob and Laban came to terms about Leah and Rachel but only after much pain. Most MLB teams will negotiate with Scott Boras but some boycott him on occasion or forever. Just human nature.

Just saying when the employer has options, it almost never advances any candidate's case to have the same rep immediately proximate to a spectacular hiring failure. (Just think of the pub associated with the saga of Bowden to Clemson.) It's amazing how bringing a fresh face into the room can make a difference. But then you know that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Baywave1 wrote:
ml wave wrote:
Baywave1 wrote:
Apparently Bowden and RR may have had same rep(s)/advisor(s). Let's just say that doesn't help number two candidate's status when number one candidate has already rejected the job offer (or in this case contract extension.)

Not saying this was a deciding factor, just an influencer that didn't help RR.

Are you saying this is a problem in general, or specifically that Cowen penalized RR for having the same agent as Bowden?



You're an experienced guy. You think it's any easier to negotiate a marriage and dowry with daughter number two after the deal with daughter number one hits snags?

Sure Jacob and Laban came to terms about Leah and Rachel but only after much pain. Most MLB teams will negotiate with Scott Boras but some boycott him on occasion or forever. Just human nature.

Just saying when the employer has options, it almost never advances any candidate's case to have the same rep immediately proximate to a spectacular hiring failure. (Just think of the pub associated with the saga of Bowden to Clemson.) It's amazing how bringing a fresh face into the room can make a difference. But then you know that.

So, to answer my question, in general? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:43 pm 
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long green wrote:
On June 10th, 2003 was there even one fan who didn’t think Rick Dickson was a hero? I will go so far as to say that Sandy could not have done what he did then...and I don’t think I’m going very far. Dickson did not become a serious millstone around our necks until he held on to Bob Toledo after the 2009 season. I’m not saying he was perfect up to then. He made a poor, buddy-buddy hire in Finney & held on to him but it’s at least possible that RD did not relish making a post-review hire until he had to. That also have influenced his post-review extension of Scelfo’s contract.

Sandy did not have the support she needed but neither did Dickson, though he’s responsible for a lot if not all of that lack. And I’ll say this for Dickson: his response to the review was the football stadium. He was working on that when the storm hit. He lacked many, many of the things needed for a good AD but he had vision. Of the tunnel variety, but he had it.



I know I didn't care for him at that point and I know many others that didn't. They all saw him at that point as lazy and incompetent and much more concerned with his tennis game than Tulane athletics. In fact he was so disinterested he didn't even know the review was going on. When he found out he scurried like a rat to save his easy, cush job. As soon as it was over he went back to his lazy ways. In fact what saved Tulane athletics was Katrina. The review put benchmarks in place to be met over the next 5 years. The department wasn't even coming close. Then Katrina hit and they saw athletics as the only way to keep the Tulane name out there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:45 pm 
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long green wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
RD had the gravitas to fight and save Div.1A sports at Tulane after the review in 2003. Sandy just didn't have that back then. It was RD's failings: his inability to hire good HC in any major sport (other than Pierce in baseball), his dysfunctional running of the athletic department, his inability to connect (or care about) the regular fan, etc. that did him in. And he stayed maybe 2-3 years too long. Hard to give RD a grade for his tenure at Tulane.


As a manager of competitive programs he could not have been much worse. But he saved the program in 2003, kept it going after the storm, and no Yulman almost certainly equals still being in CUSA.


He didn't save the program we did.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Yeah no let's not revise history on RD to make him look better bc Scott Cowen was so terrible.

RD could have made better decisions, and if he didn't like the constraints he was under working here, he didn't have to stay. Instead RD chose to be vindictive and contentious when fans asked questions. Fans have every right to be entitled to ask questions because it's our money paying for tickets and donations.

As the saying goes, we can have disagreements, but it's not ok to be disagreeable. RD would be disagreeable. RD would go out of his way to disinvite people he disagreed with to functions, push people out of activities, and try to stiffle any dissent. Instead of answering questions he would hide behind those ridiculous "online chats" where fake people would ask him questions about oyster restaurants so that he wouldn't have to answer real questions. Remember all of that?

If Jewett lays another egg again this season then we'll probably bring out pitchforks on Dannen about that particular hire, but Dannen has been very accessible, reasonable in addressing issues in a timely way, and he hasn't issued any vendettas against fans or telling Athletic Department employees that they could lose their jobs if they spoke with or communicated with so and so fan.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:20 pm 
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All the anecdotal evidence DrHullabaloo lists above matches the info I've been told about RD's tenure by multiple other sources in the athletic department. Plus I have the stories I've been told directly by team members about how he often confused teams with each other and/or didn't even know certain teams had begun their seasons yet. He just plain didn't care... at least in the last 5+ years of his tenure.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Leaving RD out of this, there is no doubt Cowen, who controlled the budget, was the major reason why Tulane athletics underachieved during his tenure.

Example - some years ago when we were in CUSA we had an assistant basketball coach leave for fellow league member Houston. That coach DOUBLED his salary. Our budget was always near the bottom of the league we were in. It's really hard to hire head coaches when they ask you what your assistant salary pool is and you tell them you're at the bottom of the league, regardless of who is running the department.

Things started to change though when Trustees finally started asking questions, thankfully.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:49 pm 
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DrHullabaloo wrote:
Yeah no let's not revise history on RD to make him look better bc Scott Cowen was so terrible.

RD could have made better decisions, and if he didn't like the constraints he was under working here, he didn't have to stay. Instead RD chose to be vindictive and contentious when fans asked questions. Fans have every right to be entitled to ask questions because it's our money paying for tickets and donations.

As the saying goes, we can have disagreements, but it's not ok to be disagreeable. RD would be disagreeable. RD would go out of his way to disinvite people he disagreed with to functions, push people out of activities, and try to stiffle any dissent. Instead of answering questions he would hide behind those ridiculous "online chats" where fake people would ask him questions about oyster restaurants so that he wouldn't have to answer real questions. Remember all of that?

If Jewett lays another egg again this season then we'll probably bring out pitchforks on Dannen about that particular hire, but Dannen has been very accessible, reasonable in addressing issues in a timely way, and he hasn't issued any vendettas against fans or telling Athletic Department employees that they could lose their jobs if they spoke with or communicated with so and so fan.


+1,000,000,000

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Let's don't minimize one of his real accomplishments (the review).

And it's not an attempt on my part to make a saint out of Dickson. The problems mentioned by others in posts after my most recent here are all true. But there is always more to the truth. Indeed it's characteristic of the era that the accomplishment I highlighted was something that would not have been necessary at a place not afflicted with the real man of the thread, Schmuck McLookatme, I mean Scott Cowen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Not minimizing it. Just being honest.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:16 pm 
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wavedom wrote:
Not minimizing it. Just being honest.

I think the accomplishment was significant, but the motivation gets way overlooked. That said, certainly the ends justify the means in this case.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:46 pm 
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The accomplishment was significant . He doesn't deserve the credit. We do.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:57 am 
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There is a touch of "create your own reality" regarding Dickson's "defeat" of the review.
His best outcome was the idea for Yulman, although not its execution.
I'll defend him on one thing: Toledo wasn't a bad hire, in those circumstances. Toledo should have been able to stabilize this program. That he didn't is on Toledo - had he hired, say, Curtis Johnson's first staff, that would have done the trick. It also took him 3 years to understand the difference between FBS and FCS recruits - a strong staff would have taken care of that. Dickson kept him around too long

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 am 
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getting us into the AAC was pretty significant I would hate to think what the Program would look like if we had stayed in CUSA.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:28 pm 
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https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.c ... r-stadium/
:whistle:
#profpost

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:06 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/08/tcu-moves-forward-with-100-million-expansion-of-amon-g-carter-stadium/
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#profpost

They renovated their stadium and now 6 years later they are putting another $100 million into it? :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:17 am 
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waverider wrote:
They renovated their stadium and now 6 years later they are putting another $100 million into it? :shock:
99% of the time when an owner is building a new facility, they get a design from an architect which exceeds the budget, but it comes with a laundry list of design choices. As project budget estimates are done by contractors and the design narrows in on the "actual" finished product, things get cut (or sometimes added) based on priorities. Sometimes an item is important enough (and pricey enough) that the owner goes back to their money sources and asks for a larger budget (in this case, it might be a capital campaign from donors, or asking single big-name boosters to give for that specific item). Most times, they look around for other "less prioritized" items they can cut. The number of suites in a stadium, for example, would be something where they'd make an educated decision based on the cost at the time, the expected demand and the revenue they'd generate, and how much more it would cost if added later. Once they determined to wait on some suites, the original plans would be designed to more-easily support the later addition, just like how the west side of Hertz had beefed up structure to eventually hold Yulman. There's a lot of future-looking (guessing) involved in that game, and it's always risky to go big with things which are dependent on something like "success of a football team".

With no knowledge of this stadium project, I can almost guarantee you that the design now being implemented was already drawn up back when it was originally designed, if not from the get-go then at some point during the design phase after it was determined the budget would not sustain the larger number of suites, etc. So they've had enough success in the past 6 years that demand (and available money) has already made it "later". This is not uncommon at all in the construction industry.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:22 am 
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Amazing what that big money can do

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