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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:10 pm 
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visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


Holy smokes, him scoring points is bad? The team scored more points per possession with him on the court and allowed fewer with him on the court and you’re spinning that as a bad thing? Wow. Impressive. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.


And I'm also guessing you didn't get the Mj reference either.

I feel like when I have to explain to a quant that math isn't the answer and you can't hedge rupee exposure with a salmon future no matter what the math says

It was a QUALITATIVE OBSERVATION THAT WHEN HE WAS IN THE FLOOR IT WAS THE MELVIN SHOW AND WHEN HE WASN'T WE PLAYED TEAM BASKETBALL. I'm taking awaybyour mountain dew and oatmeal as punishment

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:11 pm 
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visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


It actually showed he was 2nd in points per possession on offense to Sehic, was it the Sehic show?
Are we better off without Sehic?


You obviously need to look up qualitative

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:17 pm 
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windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


Holy smokes, him scoring points is bad? The team scored more points per possession with him on the court and allowed fewer with him on the court and you’re spinning that as a bad thing? Wow. Impressive. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.


And I'm also guessing you didn't get the Mj reference either.

I feel like when I have to explain to a quant that math isn't the answer and you can't hedge rupee exposure with a salmon future no matter what the math says

It was a QUALITATIVE OBSERVATION THAT WHEN HE WAS IN THE FLOOR IT WAS THE MELVIN SHOW AND WHEN HE WASN'T WE PLAYED TEAM BASKETBALL. I'm taking awaybyour mountain dew and oatmeal as punishment


Then “team basketball” isn’t worth a whole lot because we were a much better team with Frazier on the floor

FWIW, Reynolds and Sehic both had higher Usage rates than Frazier.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:30 am 
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windywave wrote:
wavedom wrote:
windywave wrote:
wavedom wrote:
He can't because he has no clue.


Just because you're incapable of processing anything resembling a cogent thought doesn't mean everyone else is like that.


The next cogent thought you have will be your first. No one will hold their breath waiting.


Did you have to look up cogent?

Quant never could

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:01 am 
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I can't begin to describe how tired some of us are at having to wade through these p!ssing matches. Try and have a civil conversation minus the insults.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:45 am 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
I can't begin to describe how tired some of us are at having to wade through these p!ssing matches. Try and have a civil conversation minus the insults.


I was tempted to just lock the thread

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:53 am 
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visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


Holy smokes, him scoring points is bad? The team scored more points per possession with him on the court and allowed fewer with him on the court and you’re spinning that as a bad thing? Wow. Impressive. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.


And I'm also guessing you didn't get the Mj reference either.

I feel like when I have to explain to a quant that math isn't the answer and you can't hedge rupee exposure with a salmon future no matter what the math says

It was a QUALITATIVE OBSERVATION THAT WHEN HE WAS IN THE FLOOR IT WAS THE MELVIN SHOW AND WHEN HE WASN'T WE PLAYED TEAM BASKETBALL. I'm taking awaybyour mountain dew and oatmeal as punishment


Then “team basketball” isn’t worth a whole lot because we were a much better team with Frazier on the floor

FWIW, Reynolds and Sehic both had higher Usage rates than Frazier.

Shots per 100 possessions
2017-18 Tulane:
Reynolds 21.5
Frazier 17.9
Sehic 17.6
Cornish 16.8
Daniels 14.6
Embo/Slater 14.0

1988-89 Bulls:
Jordan 27.3
Pippen 17.8
.
.
.

Definitely a clear Frazier/Jordan comparison to be made here imo.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:25 am 
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I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:41 am 
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visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


Holy smokes, him scoring points is bad? The team scored more points per possession with him on the court and allowed fewer with him on the court and you’re spinning that as a bad thing? Wow. Impressive. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.

Think it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the stat rather than spin.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Johnny Mac wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
I can't begin to describe how tired some of us are at having to wade through these p!ssing matches. Try and have a civil conversation minus the insults.


I was tempted to just lock the thread

I, and I'm sure most of the rest of us, are very grateful for the thankless, tiring job the moderators do.

That being said, I, and I'm sure most of the rest of us, are also tired of having to slog through pages of insults and petty b.s. to get to actual information, humor, or actual analysis and opinion.

I can only speak for myself, but I would definitely welcome stronger enforcement of the rules around here. Again, I know you guys are unpaid and stuck with an exhausting chore, but it is clear where the problems lie. I don't want this to seem like I'm ungrateful--I know I do and pay nothing for this site, and I am honestly grateful for it and the work that goes into it. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:07 pm 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.

That's a very good analogy IMHO and I agree wholeheartedly.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:40 pm 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.


I’m sure that is what he’s getting at, but the problem is when you give a Skip Bayless type take like “is the Texans defense better without JJ Watt” or “are the Warriors better without Durant” and even “Tulane plays better without Melvin Frazier” then you better have something to back it up or else you just look like Skip Bayless.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:41 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
windywave wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
No. Say what you mean


Well I said we devolved to the Melvin show. Your statistics indicate that Melvin was scoring more per possession than anyone else on the team. So I asked is the stat to bolster or rebut my take because at first glance it appears that, in fact, when Melvin was on the floor it was the Melvin show from your statistics. Not that hard with a bit of reading comprehension.


Holy smokes, him scoring points is bad? The team scored more points per possession with him on the court and allowed fewer with him on the court and you’re spinning that as a bad thing? Wow. Impressive. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.

Think it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the stat rather than spin.


I’m sure that’s it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm 
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look, and I'm not saying windy did this, sometimes I'll throw out a half formed idea to get contradictory arguments going. Which forces me to justify my position or, if ultimately hopeless, abandon the hill I'm on. And that's fine we're a discussion Forum where we all bring different experiences and backgrounds to our arguments. What JMac and I want to eliminate is the knee jerk insults some bring to almost every discussion.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:54 pm 
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I haven’t insulted anyone ITT


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:01 pm 
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visualmagic wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.


I’m sure that is what he’s getting at, but the problem is when you give a Skip Bayless type take like “is the Texans defense better without JJ Watt” or “are the Warriors better without Durant” and even “Tulane plays better without Melvin Frazier” then you better have something to back it up or else you just look like Skip Bayless.


It would be helpful if you included all the words that I wrote for chrissakes. For the last freaking time.... BETTER TEAM BASKETBALL

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:03 pm 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
look, and I'm not saying windy did this, sometimes I'll throw out a half formed idea to get contradictory arguments going. Which forces me to justify my position or, if ultimately hopeless, abandon the hill I'm on. And that's fine we're a discussion Forum where we all bring different experiences and backgrounds to our arguments. What JMac and I want to eliminate is the knee jerk insults some bring to almost every discussion.


Don't give up the ship. Did they give up at Rourke's Drift?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm 
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windy I watched every home game that both Frazier and Reynolds played in. From pretty good seats if I may say so. Both Frazier and Reynolds made us a MUCH better team when they were on the Court. This may not be the hill you want to die on :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:34 pm 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
windy I watched every home game that both Frazier and Reynolds played in. From pretty good seats if I may say so. Both Frazier and Reynolds made us a MUCH better team when they were on the Court. This may not be the hill you want to die on :wink:


Agree. But as Pete reminded us real issue was too few players in the regular rotation. Tulane was a truly worn out team by last March.

I'm not advocating hockey shifts or even a renewed Posse but look at the average playing time for good AAC teams. You might see a couple with 30+ minutes but that is it. Dunleavy needs 8-9 players that contribute and get significant court time.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:37 pm 
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GreenieBacker wrote:
windy I watched every home game that both Frazier and Reynolds played in. From pretty good seats if I may say so. Both Frazier and Reynolds made us a MUCH better team when they were on the Court. This may not be the hill you want to die on :wink:


That's at least a fair opinion/ objection to what I actually wrote. Disagree of course but at least you bothered to read what I wrote

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:48 pm 
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windywave wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
look, and I'm not saying windy did this, sometimes I'll throw out a half formed idea to get contradictory arguments going. Which forces me to justify my position or, if ultimately hopeless, abandon the hill I'm on. And that's fine we're a discussion Forum where we all bring different experiences and backgrounds to our arguments. What JMac and I want to eliminate is the knee jerk insults some bring to almost every discussion.


Don't give up the ship. Did they give up at Rourke's Drift?


what I am proposing is just outright locking threads when it gets into the bullshiat back and forth taking shots at one another and issuing "strikes" against the perpetrators... once you reach a level we haven't decided upon yet, you're done. Don't like the idea, go bug the guys at gotula or stop with the squabbling and name calling

I could give a shiat if this site devolves into a round table between me, the rest of the Mods, Pete, Gerry and Gretna because everyone else was shown the door or opted to leave on their own (apologies to other innocent parties who'd still be here, but I'm just making a point) .

This. Ends. Now.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:56 pm 
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I feel left out. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:08 pm 
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TUPF wrote:
I feel left out. :lol:


sorry dude... was just a top of the head rant.. I went back in and added the apology rather than people to the list because once I thought about it, it was gonna belabor the point

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Just pulling your chain. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:42 pm 
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visualmagic wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.


I’m sure that is what he’s getting at, but the problem is when you give a Skip Bayless type take like “is the Texans defense better without JJ Watt” or “are the Warriors better without Durant” and even “Tulane plays better without Melvin Frazier” then you better have something to back it up or else you just look like Skip Bayless.


Very well said!


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