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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:02 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:
I think I know what windy is trying to get at. A very talented player can become a crutch that the rest of the team leans on and, if he's unselfish to th point to where it doesn't hurt the team.....its a good thing. Like Phil Hicks who we all knew was going to carry a mediocre team or an Anthony Reed who in those early years was the rock we depended on when we desperately needed a rebound or a score. On the other hand you can have an immensely talented player who can disrupt your Offense when he's there and who you wonder, if he wasn't there, if you could be a better team. I'm thinking Gerald Honeycutt, a 5 Star athlete who could be unstoppable inside except that he preferred to launch bombs from way outside because he thought that was what the NBA scouts wanted to see.

Frazier and Reynolds could not be farther from the Honeycutt mold. Both were talented, unselfish players immensely talented in Frazier's case who made us much better when they were in.


I’m sure that is what he’s getting at, but the problem is when you give a Skip Bayless type take like “is the Texans defense better without JJ Watt” or “are the Warriors better without Durant” and even “Tulane plays better without Melvin Frazier” then you better have something to back it up or else you just look like Skip Bayless.


Very well said!


And yet mo well thought out. Omitting a modifier changes the whole meaning

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Okay I'll say it. Frazier wasn't a great college player. He was good college player with NBA measurables. He was nothing like Reed or Honeycutt on the court.
We should be better because of progression of the program and more depth.
I don't really care that Dunleavy enjoys his job. I do expect to see real progress, which we really didn't see much of last year (we saw an easier ooc schedule though).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:08 am 
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GSx wrote:
Okay I'll say it. Frazier wasn't a great college player. He was good college player with NBA measurables. He was nothing like Reed or Honeycutt on the court.
We should be better because of progression of the program and more depth.
I don't really care that Dunleavy enjoys his job. I do expect to see real progress, which we really didn't see much of last year (we saw an easier ooc schedule though).


I don’t think anyone would disagree with that about Frazier being good and not great. He was far and away our most talented and productive.

Just ask yourself how many wins were Frazier and Reynolds worth last season?
Is normal progression from the rest of the team and added depth worth more? If so, how much more?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:33 pm 
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visualmagic wrote:
Just ask yourself how many wins were Frazier and Reynolds worth last season?
Is normal progression from the rest of the team and added depth worth more? If so, how much more?
If anyone could answer that definitively, they should be in Vegas rather than here... As for the rest of us, we'll see soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:07 am 
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PeteRasche wrote:
visualmagic wrote:
Just ask yourself how many wins were Frazier and Reynolds worth last season?
Is normal progression from the rest of the team and added depth worth more? If so, how much more?
If anyone could answer that definitively, they should be in Vegas rather than here... As for the rest of us, we'll see soon.


Probably not that hard to give a decent estimate for how many wins Frazier and Reynolds were worth.
And I’m not asking for a definitive answer, I’d like to know what people think. Which of those two is worth more?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:27 am 
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Very hard to distinguish between the two since they offered two very different things. Honestly, I would say they were equally the same. One offense, one everything else. The reason we didn’t win more is because we didn’t have a PG/QB, nor did we have a post presence. Very few teams, if any, can win at high level with a team of forwards.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:59 am 
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I thought the question was "Which is worth more: (1) Frazier and Reynolds or (2) team progression and more depth?" But Visual can speak for himself. For me, that question is one of those unknowables, but we will see what the record is at the end of this season. Of course, the teams we play this year won't be the same as those we played last year. So who can tell? But at least there will be a season record to compare to last year's. Then we can discuss which schedule was more difficult.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:35 pm 
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CT Wave wrote:
I thought the question was "Which is worth more: (1) Frazier and Reynolds or (2) team progression and more depth?" But Visual can speak for himself. For me, that question is one of those unknowables, but we will see what the record is at the end of this season. Of course, the teams we play this year won't be the same as those we played last year. So who can tell? But at least there will be a season record to compare to last year's. Then we can discuss which schedule was more difficult.


That’s correct. How many wins are we subtracting with the loss of Reynolds and Frazier was the question


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