Ok fine. I dont know what was said behind closed doors to Lee or Veal. Not sure they would have been the difference, but you can make that argument at least. Where are you getting three non-winning seasons, though? He has been here three years and we just had a winning season. We finished 7-6tjtlja wrote:tulaneoutlaw wrote:Wait really? Because he had neither Lee nor Veal in year one. Those guys transferred and it wasn't like WF could pull replacements out of his butt
And it didn't cost us three consecutive winning seasons. We had a winning season this year. It cost us at most two, and you can argue a missed field goal vs Cinci/being jobbed by refs vs SMU are the reason we didn't have a winning season in year two. That's not on Fritz's offense.
Wavedom, I'm sorry but you must be some kind of prophet. Nobody on here that I can recall could draw any solid conclusions in year one. We had NO quarterback experience. The cupboard was completely bare. Good for you that you're ok with the move now, but there's no way you can convince me he should have known to totally abandon a previously super successful system after year one.
They transferred because of the system. They were told what we were going to do offensively and decided to hit the road. Fritz should have recognized the talent he had and adjusted accordingly. He didn’t and we loss. Plain and simple. And saying he could not have adjusted is hogwash. He is adjusting now and why, because he doesn’t have the talent to run his system. And it did cost us three winning seasons and probably several QB’s along the way.
Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Yeah because Curtis Johnson had so much faith in the talent of Glenn C. he started a walk on over him. Tanner Lee may have had talent but when did it show up? Was it the season he went 2-8, 3-6, or 4-8 has a starter? I see no winning record, no bowl games, and two coaching staffs fired with him...but hey some people think wins and losses don't mattertjtlja wrote:No, I didn’t say anything knowing what everyone would say. But I did say Tanner had talent while he was here. Fritz should have seen that as an opportunity to develop Tanner. And I also said we had nothing close to him on the roster. The drop off from Tanner to Glenn C. to Bradford to Brantley was ridiculous. Wouldn’t you agree with that assessment after reviewing the film? How Fritz did not see that is mind boggling. You cannot win without a QB unless you are Alabama or LSU. Same thing was obviously apparent with Veal. It was a terrible decision at that time, and it was terrible decision now. We would have had three consecutive winning seasons.krewe of ham and eggs wrote:Did you type the part where he had Tanner Lee and an offense in place to win with a straight face?tjtlja wrote:I think wavedom makes some valid points. When you are getting paid what Fritz is getting paid, you watch the film and make adjustments. He knew he had Tanner Lee. He knew he had Teddy Veal. He had an offense in place to win. He should have hired an OC back then to match the type of team he had. It was a terrible miscalculation and cost us three consecutive winning seasons. And he should know something about the passing game. He has been around football for 30+ years. It was a huge mistake.
And I think not playing Brantley more in year 2 was another mistake. But it is the past, and we are now going to be a team going forward that plays the type of offense most recruits want to play. There will be a bigger pool of QB’s to choose from and it is an absolute necessity he gets a game changing QB.
AnY iMaGeS yOu PoRtRaY wIlL bE rEpReSeNtAtIvE oF tHe TeAm YoU sUpPoRt
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Let me ask you one simple question. If you were the incoming coach for Tulane and QB depth chart was Tanner, Glenn, Brantley, and Bradwell, would you have cut bait with Tanner?krewe of ham and eggs wrote:Yeah because Curtis Johnson had so much faith in the talent of Glenn C. he started a walk on over him. Tanner Lee may have had talent but when did it show up? Was it the season he went 2-8, 3-6, or 4-8 has a starter? I see no winning record, no bowl games, and two coaching staffs fired with him...but hey some people think wins and losses don't mattertjtlja wrote:No, I didn’t say anything knowing what everyone would say. But I did say Tanner had talent while he was here. Fritz should have seen that as an opportunity to develop Tanner. And I also said we had nothing close to him on the roster. The drop off from Tanner to Glenn C. to Bradford to Brantley was ridiculous. Wouldn’t you agree with that assessment after reviewing the film? How Fritz did not see that is mind boggling. You cannot win without a QB unless you are Alabama or LSU. Same thing was obviously apparent with Veal. It was a terrible decision at that time, and it was terrible decision now. We would have had three consecutive winning seasons.krewe of ham and eggs wrote:Did you type the part where he had Tanner Lee and an offense in place to win with a straight face?tjtlja wrote:I think wavedom makes some valid points. When you are getting paid what Fritz is getting paid, you watch the film and make adjustments. He knew he had Tanner Lee. He knew he had Teddy Veal. He had an offense in place to win. He should have hired an OC back then to match the type of team he had. It was a terrible miscalculation and cost us three consecutive winning seasons. And he should know something about the passing game. He has been around football for 30+ years. It was a huge mistake.
And I think not playing Brantley more in year 2 was another mistake. But it is the past, and we are now going to be a team going forward that plays the type of offense most recruits want to play. There will be a bigger pool of QB’s to choose from and it is an absolute necessity he gets a game changing QB.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
tj how sure are you that that's what happened? Do you have the inside information to know that Fritz ran Tanner off? Or did Tanner get a sniff from Nebraska and figure he'd rather not give a guy with a triple option reputation a go? I legitimately don't know so I'm asking.
Even with Tanner and Veal, I'm not convinced that's a winning season. We got beat by two scores in five of our losses so you have to think that Lee+Veal = flipping wins over 2 of Navy, SMU, and Wake. Its possible, but I'm not sure that math adds up.
Even with Tanner and Veal, I'm not convinced that's a winning season. We got beat by two scores in five of our losses so you have to think that Lee+Veal = flipping wins over 2 of Navy, SMU, and Wake. Its possible, but I'm not sure that math adds up.
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
I have the information on Tanner from the horses mouth. Offense was going to change and he wanted a shot to play in the NFL. Was as simple as that. Tanner had a lot of options and saw an opportunity to start at Nebraska.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Tanner Lee was a turnover machine......end of story. Wouldn’t have made one bit of difference if Fritz tailored the offense to Lee’s throwing arm. The line wasn’t good enough to protect him anyway. We would have needed five O’line grad transfers to make it work. I’m happy Fritz realized he had to make changes to the offense, (better passing scheme) in order to win the conference.
Last edited by Wave Revival on Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
He also ran off Jack Abraham that year.
We deserve so much better
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
WF had an opportunity with Tanner to develop him and took a pass. Our chances for success with Tanner were far greater than the alternative. WF should have taken the challenge and he didn’t. It was a risk worth taking. If Tanner succeeds, WF is a guru. If he failed, it would be expected and the argument we have no one else on the depth chart could have been used (which we didn’t). I would take that risk any day. And if WF turned out to be a guru, QB recruiting becomes a lot easier. It was a win-win.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
A fairly compelling argument, but please, please, remember what our offensive line looked like. There was NO. WAY. we were winning with a pocket passing system. It's exactly what caused us to fail under CJ (okay, one of a dozen things), and Toledo, for that matter. It's why Tanner spent most of the time on his back or throwing pick-6's due to pressure. It's revisionist history to say we could have won with a pocket passing offense or that Fritz "should have just brought in an OC who could run that system". What OC would have come, seeing what we had? Someone like Eric Price, that's who. No one, NO ONE, could have won in Fritz's first year with a stationary, pocket passing attack.tjtlja wrote:WF had an opportunity with Tanner to develop him and took a pass. Our chances for success with Tanner were far greater than the alternative. WF should have taken the challenge and he didn’t. It was a risk worth taking. If Tanner succeeds, WF is a guru. If he failed, it would be expected and the argument we have no one else on the depth chart could have been used (which we didn’t). I would take that risk any day. And if WF turned out to be a guru, QB recruiting becomes a lot easier. It was a win-win.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Tanner would not have gotten the extra year of eligibility (that he didn't use) if we didn't agree to his claim of run offtulaneoutlaw wrote:tj how sure are you that that's what happened? Do you have the inside information to know that Fritz ran Tanner off? Or did Tanner get a sniff from Nebraska and figure he'd rather not give a guy with a triple option reputation a go? I legitimately don't know so I'm asking.
Even with Tanner and Veal, I'm not convinced that's a winning season. We got beat by two scores in five of our losses so you have to think that Lee+Veal = flipping wins over 2 of Navy, SMU, and Wake. Its possible, but I'm not sure that math adds up.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Let's not forget Tanner got not one, but two, coaches fired. He was not that impressive at Nebraska and I am still befuddled why he is on an NFL roster. He might be a driving range hero and cracks in games, but as soneone said he was a turnover machine
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Anyone who changes an (as of then) successful offensive approach in order to keep Tanner Lee deserves to be fired on the spot
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Jacksonville fired their Offensive Coordinator this year. Just saying
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Try to answer all the rebuttals -
1. Tanner did not get CJ fired. No OL, no game plan, no idea to run a program, no sense of how to recruit student athletes, no business being a college head coach, and the cherry on top - he was a RD hire.
2. Tanner did not get the Nebraska coach fired. Nebraska football had been a train wreck for years.
3. Tanner wasn’t run off, but there was no one persuading him to stay. The sixth year was going to be awarded based on multiple injuries.
4. The argument that a new offensive coordinator is weak. WF has been in this business a long time. The sales pitch would have been easy. You have an NFL talent that has underachieved. We win, you look like the next coming. You lose, it was expected. Another win-win. Instead we will bring Ruse in to develop an option QB.
5. Tanner was a turnover machine. But new coaching, new ideas, how to manage the game, how to develop a very talented kid was a challenge there for the taking.
6. The only thing I agree with is the Jacksonville OC firing. His sole responsibility was to improve the practice squad and that never happened.
Again, the question was simply do you sell Tanner on staying vs. going to battle with Glenn, Brantley, and Bradwell? Who gave us the best shot of winning? With our defense, the challenge on the offensive side would have been to run the ball, develop a game plan to get the ball out of Tanner’s hand quickly, and to manage the game when we were behind the sticks. It was more than doable with good (not great) coaching. Tanner gave us our best shot at winning and the rewards far outweighed the risk.
1. Tanner did not get CJ fired. No OL, no game plan, no idea to run a program, no sense of how to recruit student athletes, no business being a college head coach, and the cherry on top - he was a RD hire.
2. Tanner did not get the Nebraska coach fired. Nebraska football had been a train wreck for years.
3. Tanner wasn’t run off, but there was no one persuading him to stay. The sixth year was going to be awarded based on multiple injuries.
4. The argument that a new offensive coordinator is weak. WF has been in this business a long time. The sales pitch would have been easy. You have an NFL talent that has underachieved. We win, you look like the next coming. You lose, it was expected. Another win-win. Instead we will bring Ruse in to develop an option QB.
5. Tanner was a turnover machine. But new coaching, new ideas, how to manage the game, how to develop a very talented kid was a challenge there for the taking.
6. The only thing I agree with is the Jacksonville OC firing. His sole responsibility was to improve the practice squad and that never happened.
Again, the question was simply do you sell Tanner on staying vs. going to battle with Glenn, Brantley, and Bradwell? Who gave us the best shot of winning? With our defense, the challenge on the offensive side would have been to run the ball, develop a game plan to get the ball out of Tanner’s hand quickly, and to manage the game when we were behind the sticks. It was more than doable with good (not great) coaching. Tanner gave us our best shot at winning and the rewards far outweighed the risk.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
I'm not arguing all of the points about whether he was good or not. We've had many cases of poor utilization. But as far as the runoff, he clearly was. He played to many games to get injury redshirt.
https://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/big ... b02c8.html
https://www.omaha.com/huskers/blogs/big ... b02c8.html
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
WTFK if Lee is the killer of coaches? I do think he could have run the Fritz offense better than what we had that year but that's not much more than spitballing.
Meanwhile may Fritz sign a QB to maintain the pipeline and let Ledford/Daniels try other positions next fall.
Meanwhile may Fritz sign a QB to maintain the pipeline and let Ledford/Daniels try other positions next fall.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Personally, I'll let Fritz make the decisions that influence his career, thank you. That Lee left, I did not mind one bit--he showed he could not win at Tulane. Any other "logic" regarding the situation, like someone said, is spitballing at best and hoping against hope. Fritz came into Tulane with a much better idea of how to win than anyone at Tulane, including a losing QB, any of us and tjtlja, or whatever your handle is. Fritz had a proven system that, up until that time, had won everywhere he had been. Oh, and by the way, every successful Tulane team for the last 40 years had a mobile QB, so there's that history as well. So don't blow smoke up my @ss and say that Tanner Lee was any savior to win in the first season. It is merely an opinion without fact. Maybe, just maybe, Fritz did Lee a favor and let him realize his dream at a place where Lee's talents would have been better utilized, which is what happened. (He didn't do Mike Riley any favors, though). As for Abraham, Fritz probably did that kid a favor, too or the kid made his own decision. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Hard to believe GC couldn't make an option pitch, either, but there it was...
As far as Veal is concerned, Veal made a decision that he might regret later. Yeah, he had a decent career at La Tech, but he would have had a similar career at Tulane and would've come out with a better degree. I think he saw a run-heavy offense where he wasn't the "star" that he wanted to be. My guess is that it was his decision, not Fritz's. Perhaps he doesn't like to block on running plays.
Anyone who doesn't think Fritz has made significant progress over what we have had in the last 15+ years either isn't paying attention, has an agenda or is just plain obtuse. It has also helped that the school has become more serious of running a modern Athletic Dept. as a business and is an important part of the Tulane brand. Is it possible that Fritz will mistakes--you betcha. Did I expect a miracle worker? Nope, I wanted someone to build the program up to a consistent winner. The jury is still out on that, but so far I like what I see.
As far as Veal is concerned, Veal made a decision that he might regret later. Yeah, he had a decent career at La Tech, but he would have had a similar career at Tulane and would've come out with a better degree. I think he saw a run-heavy offense where he wasn't the "star" that he wanted to be. My guess is that it was his decision, not Fritz's. Perhaps he doesn't like to block on running plays.
Anyone who doesn't think Fritz has made significant progress over what we have had in the last 15+ years either isn't paying attention, has an agenda or is just plain obtuse. It has also helped that the school has become more serious of running a modern Athletic Dept. as a business and is an important part of the Tulane brand. Is it possible that Fritz will mistakes--you betcha. Did I expect a miracle worker? Nope, I wanted someone to build the program up to a consistent winner. The jury is still out on that, but so far I like what I see.
Plan your work, work your plan.
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
I've always viewed Veal and Junior Diaz as an independent one off situation. They were involved in what at best can only be described as an unhappy lurid issue off field and if one chose could be described as much worse. (No point in rehashing any of these details here. A simple internet search will do for those who wish to revisit it or know more.) It particularly disrupted Veal's campus life and I'm sure it negatively impacted Diaz's as well.
There must have been lots of reasons each transferred including football but to get away from that baggage is what always seemed to me a principal contributor to why each left. Just my SWAG.
There must have been lots of reasons each transferred including football but to get away from that baggage is what always seemed to me a principal contributor to why each left. Just my SWAG.
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Mike Riley didn’t do Mike Riley any favors.Rotorooter wrote:Personally, I'll let Fritz make the decisions that influence his career, thank you. That Lee left, I did not mind one bit--he showed he could not win at Tulane. Any other "logic" regarding the situation, like someone said, is spitballing at best and hoping against hope. Fritz came into Tulane with a much better idea of how to win than anyone at Tulane, including a losing QB, any of us and tjtlja, or whatever your handle is. Fritz had a proven system that, up until that time, had won everywhere he had been. Oh, and by the way, every successful Tulane team for the last 40 years had a mobile QB, so there's that history as well. So don't blow smoke up my @ss and say that Tanner Lee was any savior to win in the first season. It is merely an opinion without fact. Maybe, just maybe, Fritz did Lee a favor and let him realize his dream at a place where Lee's talents would have been better utilized, which is what happened. (He didn't do Mike Riley any favors, though). As for Abraham, Fritz probably did that kid a favor, too or the kid made his own decision. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Hard to believe GC couldn't make an option pitch, either, but there it was...
As far as Veal is concerned, Veal made a decision that he might regret later. Yeah, he had a decent career at La Tech, but he would have had a similar career at Tulane and would've come out with a better degree. I think he saw a run-heavy offense where he wasn't the "star" that he wanted to be. My guess is that it was his decision, not Fritz's. Perhaps he doesn't like to block on running plays.
Anyone who doesn't think Fritz has made significant progress over what we have had in the last 15+ years either isn't paying attention, has an agenda or is just plain obtuse. It has also helped that the school has become more serious of running a modern Athletic Dept. as a business and is an important part of the Tulane brand. Is it possible that Fritz will mistakes--you betcha. Did I expect a miracle worker? Nope, I wanted someone to build the program up to a consistent winner. The jury is still out on that, but so far I like what I see.
As far as blowing smoke up your azz, it was my opinion at the time, and still is given that WF has come full circle from an offensive standpoint. Isn’t this board a place where you can express your opinion without the BS. No one can question WF’s decisions without having an agenda, or just plain obtuse. Give me a break.
And for the record, I love what Fritz has done with this program. It is moving forward. The one thing missing is the misses on QB’s. We need to sign kids with Tanner Lee’s physical ability. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
I'll take Justin McMillan over Tanner Lee every day of the week. Banks, too. WF just has not been able to recruit a game-changing QB out of high school. I know it matters, but not so much anymore given the graduation transfer rule. So maybe it IS difficult to comprehend for me.tjtlja wrote:Mike Riley didn’t do Mike Riley any favors.Rotorooter wrote:Personally, I'll let Fritz make the decisions that influence his career, thank you. That Lee left, I did not mind one bit--he showed he could not win at Tulane. Any other "logic" regarding the situation, like someone said, is spitballing at best and hoping against hope. Fritz came into Tulane with a much better idea of how to win than anyone at Tulane, including a losing QB, any of us and tjtlja, or whatever your handle is. Fritz had a proven system that, up until that time, had won everywhere he had been. Oh, and by the way, every successful Tulane team for the last 40 years had a mobile QB, so there's that history as well. So don't blow smoke up my @ss and say that Tanner Lee was any savior to win in the first season. It is merely an opinion without fact. Maybe, just maybe, Fritz did Lee a favor and let him realize his dream at a place where Lee's talents would have been better utilized, which is what happened. (He didn't do Mike Riley any favors, though). As for Abraham, Fritz probably did that kid a favor, too or the kid made his own decision. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Hard to believe GC couldn't make an option pitch, either, but there it was...
As far as Veal is concerned, Veal made a decision that he might regret later. Yeah, he had a decent career at La Tech, but he would have had a similar career at Tulane and would've come out with a better degree. I think he saw a run-heavy offense where he wasn't the "star" that he wanted to be. My guess is that it was his decision, not Fritz's. Perhaps he doesn't like to block on running plays.
Anyone who doesn't think Fritz has made significant progress over what we have had in the last 15+ years either isn't paying attention, has an agenda or is just plain obtuse. It has also helped that the school has become more serious of running a modern Athletic Dept. as a business and is an important part of the Tulane brand. Is it possible that Fritz will mistakes--you betcha. Did I expect a miracle worker? Nope, I wanted someone to build the program up to a consistent winner. The jury is still out on that, but so far I like what I see.
As far as blowing smoke up your azz, it was my opinion at the time, and still is given that WF has come full circle from an offensive standpoint. Isn’t this board a place where you can express your opinion without the BS. No one can question WF’s decisions without having an agenda, or just plain obtuse. Give me a break.
And for the record, I love what Fritz has done with this program. It is moving forward. The one thing missing is the misses on QB’s. We need to sign kids with Tanner Lee’s physical ability. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
And I seriously doubt WF has come "full circle" on his offense, whatever that means. Ruse could not increase the sophistication of the offense, that is what Hall is here to do. That, and do more things with regard to tempo--at least that what WF has said.
BTW, I did say it was your opinion. I just strongly disagree with your opinion.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Anyone who thinks that Fritz is going an entirely different direction on offense is going to be sorely disappointed. He wants somebody Who can both start doing what he wanted to do (and couldn’t because of personnel) and improve upon it/innovate it. But I wouldn’t anticipate a sea change. I would expect a 50-50 split between running and passing, but that was always his stated goal.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16
Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
THIS.tulaneoutlaw wrote:The offense was bad the last three years. But judging that in year 1 when we had no QB experience and a dearth of talent is revisionist history. It's silly to expect a coach who'd had success at every level to abandon his system after one year with a very bad hand. Year two was puzzling and year 3 the right moves were made at season's end. IT would have been so easy to stand pat since we made a bowl, but WF made a move because he saw the need. Be happy we have a coach that will do that.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
I think WF wants to get closer to the Offense he ran at Sm Houston State, and he just concluded that Ruse was incapable of getting him there, thus the change. Personally, I would be happy with that offensive style and I think a growing number of high school QB's would find it attractive.
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Re: Fritz had a press conference to wrap up the season.
Define 50/50 first. My notion of Fritz' notion of 50/50 is yardage, not attempts. He wants to run the ball and he will. But he and we need to broaden the passing game.WaveProf wrote:Anyone who thinks that Fritz is going an entirely different direction on offense is going to be sorely disappointed. He wants somebody Who can both start doing what he wanted to do (and couldn’t because of personnel) and improve upon it/innovate it. But I wouldn’t anticipate a sea change. I would expect a 50-50 split between running and passing, but that was always his stated goal.
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