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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:07 pm 
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Cheerleader wrote:
TUPF wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
TUPF wrote:
Like most folks I usually looked for ways to get out of jury duty before this but it was my time. Now that I’ve done it I would urge anyone to do it at least once. It will change you.
I've been called three times. The first and third times I sat in the pool room while other groups were called, and after several days, they told us to call in each evening and see whether we were needed the next day. Both times I was never needed again until my two-week period ended. The second time I was selected for a case on the first day, and was like 22nd or 23rd in order, and they seated a jury in the first 19 people, so I was dismissed. I've been told that being an engineer with a law degree is very likely to get me dismissed by one side or the other right off the bat, but that theory has never been tested.

It’s all about the numbers. In Philadelphia you call in once the night before and if they say no, you are done for another year. This time I had to report, which is the second time in a row. Last time I made it as far as the courtroom but was in the second group of 50 potential jurors and they filled out their pool in the first 50—the rest of us were sent back to the holding room with a couple hundred others until 4pm. This time I knew I’d at least reach voire dire because I was juror #3.

My wife has been called to jury duty but never seated—she practiced family law in CT. They ask your highest level of education and job experience in the juror questionnaire and other questions. Thinking back on it I think the reason both sides OK’d me as a former submarine officer was that I answered yes on the question “have you or any close member of your family ever witnessed a crime?” and the judge asked me about it. My wife was in court in Norwich, CT in 1984 when a man murdered his wife with a handgun a few feet away. It made national news. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/05/25 ... 454305600/


I was called to a Federal jury trial, and I was not selected, but I learned how to avoid being selected if I wanted to. The judge asked if any of us believed that if a person is arrested, then he must be guilty of something. One fellow answered yes, and after a couple of questions, they dismissed him.
That specific question was on our written questionnaire. What won’t get you excused is work, vacation plans, day care difficulties, non critical surgery, car trouble, phase of the moon. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:46 pm 
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PeteRasche wrote:
TUPF wrote:
Like most folks I usually looked for ways to get out of jury duty before this but it was my time. Now that I’ve done it I would urge anyone to do it at least once. It will change you.
I've been called three times. The first and third times I sat in the pool room while other groups were called, and after several days, they told us to call in each evening and see whether we were needed the next day. Both times I was never needed again until my two-week period ended. The second time I was selected for a case on the first day, and was like 22nd or 23rd in order, and they seated a jury in the first 19 people, so I was dismissed. I've been told that being an engineer with a law degree is very likely to get me dismissed by one side or the other right off the bat, but that theory has never been tested.
My experience has been pretty much the same, Pete, except that the one time I did make it to near the front of the pool (I was "prospective juror number three") I was bumped peremptorily, presumably because I was an Engineer. I've come to believe that the lawyers know that sometimes the verdict rests upon how well they can sell an emotional appeal to the jury, so they tend to avoid people in a profession that relies on logical analysis rather than aesthetics. A friend, who is an architect, has sat on 4 juries, and has never been challenged off; to my knowledge, none of my engineer friends have ever been selected. Nor have my law enforcement, lawyer, or airplane pilot friends. The woman I've hired several times to paint rooms inside my house has sat in trial on 5 juries, and she's not yet 50 years old.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:26 pm 
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I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:34 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
wavedom wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
wavedom wrote:
If you can't handle different opinions then I recommend you get off the internet.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image

You would know. :jerry:
You let me know when I personally attack you without being provoked and I'll apologize. I may not agree with someone's opinion on a topic but I will never call anyone a name, personally attack them, or tell them they are an idiot for thinking what they think, unless they do it to me first.


What ?????

Cut through all the bickering, Wavedom makes some good points. We cannot be average. We must be better than that or we will fall back to CUSA level, then extinction. As Pete said, watching UCF, Houston, Memphis, or Cincinnati leaving would be a terrible scenario to overcome. And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.


Pink?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:35 pm 
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wavedom wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
wavedom wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
wavedom wrote:
If you can't handle different opinions then I recommend you get off the internet.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image

You would know. :jerry:
You let me know when I personally attack you without being provoked and I'll apologize. I may not agree with someone's opinion on a topic but I will never call anyone a name, personally attack them, or tell them they are an idiot for thinking what they think, unless they do it to me first.



Same here.


FIFY

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:37 pm 
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sprout1550 wrote:
I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.


Coming to the Northwestern game?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:15 pm 
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Roller wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
TUPF wrote:
Like most folks I usually looked for ways to get out of jury duty before this but it was my time. Now that I’ve done it I would urge anyone to do it at least once. It will change you.
I've been called three times. The first and third times I sat in the pool room while other groups were called, and after several days, they told us to call in each evening and see whether we were needed the next day. Both times I was never needed again until my two-week period ended. The second time I was selected for a case on the first day, and was like 22nd or 23rd in order, and they seated a jury in the first 19 people, so I was dismissed. I've been told that being an engineer with a law degree is very likely to get me dismissed by one side or the other right off the bat, but that theory has never been tested.
My experience has been pretty much the same, Pete, except that the one time I did make it to near the front of the pool (I was "prospective juror number three") I was bumped peremptorily, presumably because I was an Engineer. I've come to believe that the lawyers know that sometimes the verdict rests upon how well they can sell an emotional appeal to the jury, so they tend to avoid people in a profession that relies on logical analysis rather than aesthetics. A friend, who is an architect, has sat on 4 juries, and has never been challenged off; to my knowledge, none of my engineer friends have ever been selected. Nor have my law enforcement, lawyer, or airplane pilot friends. The woman I've hired several times to paint rooms inside my house has sat in trial on 5 juries, and she's not yet 50 years old.
I think you are spot on, Roller. Since I was a submarine officer and a nuclear engineer I think the ONLY reason I was empaneled was that my wife witnessed a murdered. The judge asked me only about that in voire dire. Maybe the prosecution thought I’d be more sympathetic to their case but the defense thought I’d follow the rules of evidence explicitly. I will say I put some of my nuke way of thinking in use as foreman.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:26 pm 
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windywave wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.


Coming to the Northwestern game?


You bet! I’ll tell you about it then!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:46 pm 
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sprout1550 wrote:
windywave wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.

Coming to the Northwestern game?

You bet! I’ll tell you about it then!

You can tell me too!

My wife was on a criminal jury that went several weeks, about a decade ago. She experienced some of that "bizarre" stuff. Suffice it to say that there's a whole other world out there that it's pretty safe to say most Tulanians don't live in, and we should be thankful every day for that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:13 am 
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what are we currently arguing about?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:10 am 
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PeteRasche wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
windywave wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.

Coming to the Northwestern game?

You bet! I’ll tell you about it then!

You can tell me too!

My wife was on a criminal jury that went several weeks, about a decade ago. She experienced some of that "bizarre" stuff. Suffice it to say that there's a whole other world out there that it's pretty safe to say most Tulanians don't live in, and we should be thankful every day for that.


Yes...it was very much an eye-opener...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:58 am 
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sprout1550 wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
windywave wrote:
sprout1550 wrote:
I made it on a criminal jury once. Lawyers used to be exempt in MS, but shrinking jury pools necessitated a change. I thought for sure I would be booted by one side or the other, and I was familiar with all the lawyers involved (two ADA's and defense attorney), but they left me on. My practice is work comp only, so I thought it would be an interesting experience.

It was...an experience. If we ever meet in person, and you're interested, ask me. I would rather tell you in person than reduce it to writing. Yes, it was that bizarre.

Coming to the Northwestern game?

You bet! I’ll tell you about it then!

You can tell me too!

My wife was on a criminal jury that went several weeks, about a decade ago. She experienced some of that "bizarre" stuff. Suffice it to say that there's a whole other world out there that it's pretty safe to say most Tulanians don't live in, and we should be thankful every day for that.


Yes...it was very much an eye-opener...
My wife was on the grand jury 15 years ago. I think they met once a week for 6 weeks and she was selected for a continuation of another 6 weeks but was 8+ months pregnant at the time so the judge excused her. She got to see some interesting stuff.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:47 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
... And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.
Without going back and researching the entire thread, I may be wrong, but did I correctly interpret your statement a "Tulane should pay, not the fans, because Tulane created the liability?"
Where would Tulane get the money, if not from "us"?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:27 pm 
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Roller wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
... And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.
Without going back and researching the entire thread, I may be wrong, but did I correctly interpret your statement a "Tulane should pay, not the fans, because Tulane created the liability?"
Where would Tulane get the money, if not from "us"?


For starters. $70k tuition per year. Next, investing that tuition money wisely. And if that doesn’t do it, borrow. I am surprised WF hasn’t got a significant raise (>$1M). Tulane should definitely pony up if they want a P5 spot. Quit draining our wallets.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:46 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
Roller wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
... And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.
Without going back and researching the entire thread, I may be wrong, but did I correctly interpret your statement a "Tulane should pay, not the fans, because Tulane created the liability?"
Where would Tulane get the money, if not from "us"?


For starters. $70k tuition per year. Next, investing that tuition money wisely. And if that doesn’t do it, borrow. I am surprised WF hasn’t got a significant raise (>$1M). Tulane should definitely pony up if they want a P5 spot. Quit draining our wallets.


You realize the school had a structural deficit of 10MM thanks to Scotty

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:14 am 
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I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:13 am 
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So.... Jett Duffey, Tanner Lee, and Lindsey Scott walk into a bar. The bartender happens to be Tulane's Dean of Admissions. He says "what'll you have?"

The bartender looks at Jett Duffey and says, "We don't serve your kind here." Tanner Lee is frustrated with this and nervously looks for another bartender. Seeing none, he rushes only to throw a twenty dollar bill over the bartender's head. Watching the whole thing in disgust, Lindsey Scott turns, walks out of the bar and says "I can do better than this joint". Sadly, he discovers all the other bars are closed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:45 am 
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GreenHeart wrote:
So.... Jett Duffey, Tanner Lee, and Lindsey Scott walk into a bar. The bartender happens to be Tulane's Dean of Admissions. He says "what'll you have?"

The bartender looks at Jett Duffey and says, "We don't serve your kind here." Tanner Lee is frustrated with this and nervously looks for another bartender. Seeing none, he rushes only to throw a twenty dollar bill over the bartender's head. Watching the whole thing in disgust, Lindsey Scott turns, walks out of the bar and says "I can do better than this joint". Sadly, he discovers all the other bars are closed.


And then the bartender gets fired because Lee's money didn't make it to the till

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:06 am 
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Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:32 pm 
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windywave wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
Roller wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
... And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.
Without going back and researching the entire thread, I may be wrong, but did I correctly interpret your statement a "Tulane should pay, not the fans, because Tulane created the liability?"
Where would Tulane get the money, if not from "us"?


For starters. $70k tuition per year. Next, investing that tuition money wisely. And if that doesn’t do it, borrow. I am surprised WF hasn’t got a significant raise (>$1M). Tulane should definitely pony up if they want a P5 spot. Quit draining our wallets.


You realize the school had a structural deficit of 10MM thanks to Scotty


The endowment is at what $1.3 billion. The great economic minds on campus can figure it out.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:39 pm 
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GreenHeart wrote:
So.... Jett Duffey, Tanner Lee, and Lindsey Scott walk into a bar. The bartender happens to be Tulane's Dean of Admissions. He says "what'll you have?"

The bartender looks at Jett Duffey and says, "We don't serve your kind here." Tanner Lee is frustrated with this and nervously looks for another bartender. Seeing none, he rushes only to throw a twenty dollar bill over the bartender's head. Watching the whole thing in disgust, Lindsey Scott turns, walks out of the bar and says "I can do better than this joint". Sadly, he discovers all the other bars are closed.
And a bunch of the patrons in the bar, watching from a far corner (but not actually willing to go over and intervene or do anything to actually affect a change), make a big scene about how unfair this whole thing was, scream that they are done drinking at this bar, and leave... but every one of them is back at the bar the next day.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Rotorooter wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Exactly! Thank you both.

Time to start ratcheting back the flood of student loan money. And tuition increases will slow down.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:28 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
windywave wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
Roller wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
... And the money should come from Tulane because they dug this hole, not any of us.
Without going back and researching the entire thread, I may be wrong, but did I correctly interpret your statement a "Tulane should pay, not the fans, because Tulane created the liability?"
Where would Tulane get the money, if not from "us"?


For starters. $70k tuition per year. Next, investing that tuition money wisely. And if that doesn’t do it, borrow. I am surprised WF hasn’t got a significant raise (>$1M). Tulane should definitely pony up if they want a P5 spot. Quit draining our wallets.


You realize the school had a structural deficit of 10MM thanks to Scotty


The endowment is at what $1.3 billion. The great economic minds on campus can figure it out.


You're not this stupid

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:18 pm 
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Private Joker wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Exactly! Thank you both.

Time to start ratcheting back the flood of student loan money. And tuition increases will slow down.


Roto is right. I knew from the day the government took over student loans...and I won't make a political statement about who did it, it was going to be a disaster for everyone. The increased cost of education was a by-product no one talked about. They lied to the country, telling us it would save taxpayer money. When has any government program saved us money?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:29 pm 
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Cheerleader wrote:
Private Joker wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Exactly! Thank you both.

Time to start ratcheting back the flood of student loan money. And tuition increases will slow down.


Roto is right. I knew from the day the government took over student loans...and I won't make a political statement about who did it, it was going to be a disaster for everyone. The increased cost of education was a by-product no one talked about. They lied to the country, telling us it would save taxpayer money. When has any government program saved us money?


The answer is not "Free" college either. Perhaps transferrable tax credits for tuition cost up to a capped amount.

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