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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:53 pm 
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Poseidon wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
Private Joker wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Exactly! Thank you both.

Time to start ratcheting back the flood of student loan money. And tuition increases will slow down.


Roto is right. I knew from the day the government took over student loans...and I won't make a political statement about who did it, it was going to be a disaster for everyone. The increased cost of education was a by-product no one talked about. They lied to the country, telling us it would save taxpayer money. When has any government program saved us money?


The answer is not "Free" college either. Perhaps transferrable tax credits for tuition cost up to a capped amount.


Or remove government completely from the process

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:08 pm 
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windywave wrote:
Poseidon wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
Private Joker wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
Cheerleader wrote:
I served on the board of trustees for a big private university for 13 years. I can tell you that most administrators and staff are well overpaid. They don't think they are and they are always comparing their salaries and benefits to other similar universities, who are also grossly overpaid. I served on the compensation committee, so I got a look at the secrets. The main reason I left the board was because of this problem. They have no incentive to cut costs, only to increase tuition. I don't know Tulane's budget for staff and administrators, but you can bet they would be embarrassed it it was public.

Basic economics...government takes over the student loan program, thus creating a "guarantee" that the tuition will be paid by one entity or another, either the debtor or the federal government i.e. the taxpaying public. Thus, there is no incentive for cost control, thus budgets explode and the bill goes ever higher, past the rate of inflation. In economic terms, government has created the floor (and cash flow) for University budgets. Back to the government to solve the student debt issue that was created by them in the first place.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Exactly! Thank you both.

Time to start ratcheting back the flood of student loan money. And tuition increases will slow down.


Roto is right. I knew from the day the government took over student loans...and I won't make a political statement about who did it, it was going to be a disaster for everyone. The increased cost of education was a by-product no one talked about. They lied to the country, telling us it would save taxpayer money. When has any government program saved us money?


The answer is not "Free" college either. Perhaps transferrable tax credits for tuition cost up to a capped amount.


Or remove government completely from the process


Well that would be my preference, but I was simply trying to reach across the aisle.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:46 am 
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What a weird thread. Every time I check it has moved on to some completely different topic! I want to rant too! Higher education is a mess and I agree with both of you about 1. increased administrative costs (and buildings, etc) driving up costs as opposed to teacher salaries or anything directly related to actual education and 2. the ability to raise tuition and charge whatever you want being driven by basically unlimited federally-guaranteed free money. It's similar to the subprime mortgages driving up home prices before the great recession. Something certainly needs to be done to fix the system but it can't just be stop giving people that can't afford college loans because then only rich people get to go to college.

To the comment about taxpayers not saving money or being lied to, the system doesn't work for students/borrowers but I think the federal governments makes a lot of money off of the loans. It's going to fall apart once nobody can pay anymore but, when I graduated law school in 2009, my federal loans were between 6% and 8% while the Fed had interest rates at basically 0. Since the loans are guaranteed, you can't discharge them in bankruptcy so you will always have to pay them or just go through life without making any money. The government has been making money off the backs of kids that have to borrow to afford school, not cheating taxpayers.

Meanwhile, some of the banks realized they could scoop up all the good credit risk loans on refinances with 5% or so rates so now the federal loan pool is left with the dregs that probably won't ever be able to pay. It's going to all fall apart at some point and that might suck for taxpayers when the government has to fix it. It is a big problem and is only going to get worse. Between my wife and myself we rung up (and paid off!) $600,000 in student loans, just for law school, and tuition has gone up $15,000 a year since then.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:37 am 
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2palmer0 wrote:
What a weird thread. Every time I check it has moved on to some completely different topic! I want to rant too! Higher education is a mess and I agree with both of you about 1. increased administrative costs (and buildings, etc) driving up costs as opposed to teacher salaries or anything directly related to actual education and 2. the ability to raise tuition and charge whatever you want being driven by basically unlimited federally-guaranteed free money. It's similar to the subprime mortgages driving up home prices before the great recession. Something certainly needs to be done to fix the system but it can't just be stop giving people that can't afford college loans because then only rich people get to go to college.

To the comment about taxpayers not saving money or being lied to, the system doesn't work for students/borrowers but I think the federal governments makes a lot of money off of the loans. It's going to fall apart once nobody can pay anymore but, when I graduated law school in 2009, my federal loans were between 6% and 8% while the Fed had interest rates at basically 0. Since the loans are guaranteed, you can't discharge them in bankruptcy so you will always have to pay them or just go through life without making any money. The government has been making money off the backs of kids that have to borrow to afford school, not cheating taxpayers.

Meanwhile, some of the banks realized they could scoop up all the good credit risk loans on refinances with 5% or so rates so now the federal loan pool is left with the dregs that probably won't ever be able to pay. It's going to all fall apart at some point and that might suck for taxpayers when the government has to fix it. It is a big problem and is only going to get worse. Between my wife and myself we rung up (and paid off!) $600,000 in student loans, just for law school, and tuition has gone up $15,000 a year since then.

That's insane! Congratulations on paying them off.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:57 am 
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2palmer0 wrote:
What a weird thread. Every time I check it has moved on to some completely different topic! I want to rant too! Higher education is a mess and I agree with both of you about 1. increased administrative costs (and buildings, etc) driving up costs as opposed to teacher salaries or anything directly related to actual education and 2. the ability to raise tuition and charge whatever you want being driven by basically unlimited federally-guaranteed free money. It's similar to the subprime mortgages driving up home prices before the great recession. Something certainly needs to be done to fix the system but it can't just be stop giving people that can't afford college loans because then only rich people get to go to college.

To the comment about taxpayers not saving money or being lied to, the system doesn't work for students/borrowers but I think the federal governments makes a lot of money off of the loans. It's going to fall apart once nobody can pay anymore but, when I graduated law school in 2009, my federal loans were between 6% and 8% while the Fed had interest rates at basically 0. Since the loans are guaranteed, you can't discharge them in bankruptcy so you will always have to pay them or just go through life without making any money. The government has been making money off the backs of kids that have to borrow to afford school, not cheating taxpayers.

Meanwhile, some of the banks realized they could scoop up all the good credit risk loans on refinances with 5% or so rates so now the federal loan pool is left with the dregs that probably won't ever be able to pay. It's going to all fall apart at some point and that might suck for taxpayers when the government has to fix it. It is a big problem and is only going to get worse. Between my wife and myself we rung up (and paid off!) $600,000 in student loans, just for law school, and tuition has gone up $15,000 a year since then.


The future way to solve this problem is already happening. Going to a four year school, staying in a dorm, taking 5 classes a semester and graduating in four years with a degree...that scenario is disappearing fast. Very sophisticated on-line classes enable a really good teacher to have 75-100 in their class, and monitoring all of them with access through messaging or email. Computers keep up with their progress and change the course mid stream to review or to emphasize parts in order to finish the course. Courses and teachers are still monitored and accredited. These courses can be taken by people who work full time or part time and many times are paid for by employers or potential employers who need skilled and educated people in their workforce, and who adapt the courses to meet the needs of the business. If you are a university and don't have an on-line, adult learning program, or at least a hybrid model of on-line and in person, you are going to disappear. This all brings down the cost curve so that education is more affordable to everyone who wants an education without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can take courses today from top schools and professors, sometimes without paying or paying very little. That is the future, not bricks and mortar.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:12 pm 
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It's the future for the moment until people realize how it has ruined our education system :angel:

(and yes, costs are ridiculous in higher ed and happen because places are stuck in the mud and have too much overhead. and yes, it is also true there are a lot of advantages to some things online, and many institutions are too stuck in the mud and need to be open minded. But that doesn't change my previous statement about an overall embrace of online classes of 75-100 students).

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:18 pm 
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I get the resistance to on-line, particularly from faculty. And, even great professors can't do 75-100 right away, but 25-30 is very doable. In my own experience, I have seen faculty embrace it and write their own courses, taught the way they want to teach. As the computer software and AI learns the student and the teacher and the way the professor likes to teach and how he/she responds to inquiries, it starts to generate parts of responses and even full responses after a while, which frees the prof up to handle more students and still be a great teacher. Computer video learning allows many students to hear the same lectures by world class professors. That, combined with on-line instruction has come a long way in the past 5 years alone. Big Silicon Valley companies, Amazon, Google, and others have revolutionized learning and are tailoring it to the student and the potential job source. And after all, that is why we teach, so that students can earn a living. That is why they invest money in universities. I don't think it is destroying education, but making it better, more meaningful and more accessible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:11 pm 
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Yes, by all means, lets involve Amazon and Google in education. That'll fix everything. :roll:


Look. I teach online courses. I get to write them and teach them the way I want. I have 25+ students often, and could handle more. I'm not mr resistant here. And am the first to admit there is a lot of fat in brick and mortar education, and a lot of good to be gleaned from doing SOME things online. But the overall view you are expressing takes us to a dark, dark place.

Any educator who has his head so stuck in the clouds that he thinks getting jobs (and earning a salary) shouldn't be central to an education should retire or be fired ASAP. But anyone who thinks its i the only thing education should be about, or should be the prism for which the whole thing is structured, is in the project of ruining education. There is a big area of grey between the two extremes on this issue, few just take the time to travel in those shades of grey.

I'm not interested in going further with this topic. It isn't worth either of our times, and it isn't relevant to the topic of this thread or the Tulane sports board. But letting your grandiose claims go unchecked is dangerous as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:53 pm 
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And because I like nothing better than to waltz into the dying echoes of a conversation in which I didn't participate, I'll add a coda to this:

WaveProf wrote:
Any educator who has his head so stuck in the clouds that he thinks getting jobs (and earning a salary) shouldn't be central to an education should retire or be fired ASAP. But anyone who thinks its i the only thing education should be about, or should be the prism for which the whole thing is structured, is in the project of ruining education. There is a big area of grey between the two extremes on this issue, few just take the time to travel in those shades of grey.


This is where a university makes its place--in the grey. Whereas a fine arts college, or a state teachers college, or a court reporting school has a narrow focus, often on preparing people for some sort of occupation, the university caters to a lot of other ambitions and purposes: learning for its own sake, for example, or the pursuit of studies for which there is no market except among publishers and fellow obsessives. Prof is right that there is a place for online teaching; it's just not in every discipline at every level.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:13 pm 
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I think the Mike Rowe pitch, that everyone doesn't need to go to college, is starting to root.
I spoke with an appliance repairman who was fixing my microwave last week. Smart guy (Mensa member). He's 26 years old and owns his own repair business (I've used him several times,and he does an excellent job). He said he was considering getting an engineering degree, but didn't think it was worth the price, so he went to work instead. Last year, he made over $90,000, doing stuff he enjoys. His High School best friend went to the University of Florida and got a degree in Electrical Engineering, and earns less. And that's before tuition loan payments,


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:32 pm 
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Absolutely. Getting certified working "in the trades" (plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc.) and being good at it makes you six figures these days, simply because there are less and less good ones out there. Supply and demand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:17 pm 
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WaveProf wrote:
Yes, by all means, lets involve Amazon and Google in education. That'll fix everything. :roll:


Look. I teach online courses. I get to write them and teach them the way I want. I have 25+ students often, and could handle more. I'm not mr resistant here. And am the first to admit there is a lot of fat in brick and mortar education, and a lot of good to be gleaned from doing SOME things online. But the overall view you are expressing takes us to a dark, dark place.

Any educator who has his head so stuck in the clouds that he thinks getting jobs (and earning a salary) shouldn't be central to an education should retire or be fired ASAP. But anyone who thinks its i the only thing education should be about, or should be the prism for which the whole thing is structured, is in the project of ruining education. There is a big area of grey between the two extremes on this issue, few just take the time to travel in those shades of grey.

I'm not interested in going further with this topic. It isn't worth either of our times, and it isn't relevant to the topic of this thread or the Tulane sports board. But letting your grandiose claims go unchecked is dangerous as well.


I know you want to stop the subject, and I agree. I just wanted to let you know that I agree with almost all of what you just said. I've just seen where a lot of this is going, and I think it is revolutionizing education...not all for the better, but you can see what is happening to small colleges across the nation who can't keep up...they are going broke. But we both know that overpaid administrators and staff are choking the system and something has to be done. The cost curve has to come down or college will be only for the rich or those in massive debt.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:47 pm 
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For those of you who don't look at the recruiting forum, this neatly wraps up this subject with a bow.

Spoiler: Jet Duffey denied admission at Central Michigan too.

viewtopic.php?p=771194#p771194

A lot of folks need to to be posting some mea culpas...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Pete, I have done that exactly on the recruiting forum.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:02 pm 
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But could we have admitted Lindsey Scott?

Perhaps I, too, overreacted.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Man, wtf is wrong with Texas Tech academics?!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:39 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
Pete, I have done that exactly on the recruiting forum.


And you have my respect for owning up to your remarks. Good for you!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Now the coaches can get un-mad.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:55 pm 
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PeteRasche wrote:
For those of you who don't look at the recruiting forum, this neatly wraps up this subject with a bow.

Spoiler: Jet Duffey denied admission at Central Michigan too.

viewtopic.php?p=771194#p771194

A lot of folks need to to be posting some mea culpas...
Texas Tech grads must be so proud.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:01 pm 
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PeteRasche wrote:
For those of you who don't look at the recruiting forum, this neatly wraps up this subject with a bow.

Spoiler: Jet Duffey denied admission at Central Michigan too.

http://www.yogwf.com/viewtopic.php?p=771194#p771194

A lot of folks need to to be posting some mea culpas...


This can’t be true....only Tulane was stupid enough to pull such a stunt!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:07 pm 
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windywave wrote:
Image


So...does this mean the Northwestern party is back on?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:38 pm 
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sprout1550 wrote:
windywave wrote:
Image


So...does this mean the Northwestern party is back on?

That depends, do you mean the NW party?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:39 pm 
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Tulane admissions is vindicated on this one, but my concern has always been that there appears to be a disconnect between the Tulane coaches and the admissions department. It never should have gotten as far with Duffey posting a photo in Tulane gear making it appear he had chosen Tulane plus media reports. His twitter photo had over 2,000 likes. Coach Fritz must have offered, Duffey accepted, then Fritz had to pull it back because of admissions.

Didn't we lose a well regarded baseball recruit last spring under similar circumstances?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:42 pm 
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sprout1550 wrote:
windywave wrote:
Image


So...does this mean the Northwestern party is back on?


Image

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