Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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DCGreenie
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by Roller »

DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
And yet, it is just as pertinent today as it ever was.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by Poseidon »

Some College players are apprentices at football. Their apprentiship/time in college is just three years if they chose.

It is a blue-collar apprenticeship and there are associated health risk like tons of other blue collar jobs.

They are provided housing, meals, and now a 3-5000$ yearly stipend.

The main difference is it is much harder to become a master at football and go pro. This is offset by a degree/side apprentiship earned bsusiness, law, government, etc, which others have to pay for.

College players are not taken advantage of anymore than traditional apprentiships, internships, junoir associates, residencies, probationary employme etc.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by PeteRasche »

DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
More like 20- to 30-ish, but yeah.
Depends on whether you consider the end of the innocence to be the Ed O'Bannon era (the guy who brought the lawsuit about being compensated) or whether you consider the start of the BCS to be the true leap into insane money...
Last edited by PeteRasche on Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DCGreenie
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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Roller wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:17 pm
DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
And yet, it is just as pertinent today as it ever was.
Nyet, numquam, nihil, neque.....
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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When are we going to indict and convict ABC/ESPN on the board for accelerating and worsening the corruption?
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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Poseidon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:02 pm Some College players are apprentices at football. Their apprentiship/time in college is just three years if they chose.

It is a blue-collar apprenticeship and there are associated health risk like tons of other blue collar jobs.

They are provided housing, meals, and now a 3-5000$ yearly stipend.

The main difference is it is much harder to become a master at football and go pro. This is offset by a degree/side apprentiship earned bsusiness, law, government, etc, which others have to pay for.

College players are not taken advantage of anymore than traditional apprentiships, internships, junoir associates, residencies, probationary employme etc.
This characterization is so sad I don't have words for it.....
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:40 pm
Poseidon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:02 pm Some College players are apprentices at football. Their apprentiship/time in college is just three years if they chose.

It is a blue-collar apprenticeship and there are associated health risk like tons of other blue collar jobs.

They are provided housing, meals, and now a 3-5000$ yearly stipend.

The main difference is it is much harder to become a master at football and go pro. This is offset by a degree/side apprentiship earned bsusiness, law, government, etc, which others have to pay for.

College players are not taken advantage of anymore than traditional apprentiships, internships, junoir associates, residencies, probationary employme etc.
This characterization is so sad I don't have words for it.....
Its a thought. Perhaps you should see a therapists if this makes you cry. Seriously, do you have something slighty more sophisticated to say?

BTW I never said this system or any other resembling it is good or bad. No moral judgement was made. Perhaps you should try objective looking at this instead of relying on how you "feel" about somehting.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:07 pm
DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
More like 20- to 30-ish, but yeah.
Depends on whether you consider the end of the innocence to be the Ed O'Bannon era (the guy who brought the lawsuit about being compensated) or whether you consider the start of the BCS to be the true leap into insane money...
The money isn't insane. The fans have drove the popularity to a point where we watch all the time and buy tickets, clothes, and everything else. We on the backs of players, but were playing just as haed and risking just as much 50 years ago.


The problem IMO, and Pete, DC I ageee there is a problem, is that the NFL has the 3 year rule and doesnt pony up for a minor league or rookie league system for top prospects out of out of high school. What contributes to this is the small NFL roster size for the amount of money teams make. Its not CFB's fault that elite teams have tunred into developmental minor league outfit. Thats what they are, Alabama has about 8-10 players drafted every year. That means on one given team at any time they have 30+ future pros. Most of these players are 4 and 5 star guys who could go strait to the pros and play or or sit and develope, but No the NFL lets CFB do that for them by default. By enforncing basically an age limit and having such small teams.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by PeteRasche »

ESPN has been laying people off and seems to be struggling with budget cutbacks. Then this happened a few weeks ago:
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/sec ... from%20CBS.

A $3 BILLION deal to have all SEC rights under Disney control, 2024 to 2034. That's not insane? Especially when you are laying off employees and cutting budgets otherwise?

And ohbytheway the SEC will now get $300 million per year instead of the $55 million they were getting from CBS. The gap just grows.... but more notably it further reduces their need for expanded playoffs or conference realignment. If they are getting that much money for their current lineup, why even entertain changes?
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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Poseidon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:02 pm Some College players are apprentices at football. Their apprentiship/time in college is just three years if they chose.

It is a blue-collar apprenticeship and there are associated health risk like tons of other blue collar jobs.

They are provided housing, meals, and now a 3-5000$ yearly stipend.

The main difference is it is much harder to become a master at football and go pro. This is offset by a degree/side apprentiship earned bsusiness, law, government, etc, which others have to pay for.

College players are not taken advantage of anymore than traditional apprentiships, internships, junoir associates, residencies, probationary employme etc.
I assume you mean apprenticeship in the modern sense. Because apprenticeships in the 1800s are certainly not a good proxy. I live in the home town of Andrew Johnson and while most know his presidency was poor, it's less well known that in his early years he was sold into an abusive tailor apprenticeship that he later had to literally run away and become an outlaw to escape. I assume that's not the system you are advocating.

So taking the modern sense then, one thing apprentices have is freedom of movement. If they sign on to become an apprentice welder and later decide they don't love the company they work for, they can leave and go elsewhere. Can college football players do that? If the apprentices' mentor leaves the company the apprentice can choose to follow them elsewhere, stay on board, or transfer to a different company altogether. Can college football players do that?

And who is setting the wages for these low skilled apprentices? Surely it's the many companies that hire apprentices for training. And if one company wants to pay apprentices more they can and others are welcome to match or surpass that amount. Is that how college football works? Are schools free to offer more money or other compensation to attract better apprentice players? Under the NCAA I don't think so.

The supply of quality apprentices greatly affects the wages able to be paid as well. You note that becoming a master at pro football is very difficult and only a limited number of folks can reach that level. But the same could be said for those in college football as well. Very few high school players make it to college football of any level. And those that do play in front of large live and television audiences that think those players are good enough to be worth paying to see. So does the limited supply of quality college football players allow them to negotiate higher rates of pay? Or even any other kind of benefit? Seems like the market is being awfully skewed away from players by a bunch of arbitrary NCAA rules.

In short, I don't think your apprenticeship argument holds very much water.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by WaveProf »

The bowls had no festivities this year. No activities. No anything. Going, for the universities, was simply a (good) business decision.

Why shouldn't the players treat it as one as well?

Heck, even in a normal year, why risk injury in a meaningless bowl game whose purpose is solely to make $$ for corporate sponsors and the university.

How often do you see a player opt out of a playoff game (hint, it hasn't happened yet) or a NY6 bowl (has only happened with a few teams that clearly felt underachieved to not make the play off).

All is fine in relation to this.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by Rotorooter »

I'm all for changing the system if someone can tell me how it would work and how it would eliminate cheating the system. Until then, I am in Roller's camp. ESPN, Fox, CBS and ABC are largely responsible for the mess we are in, as noted by Pete's notation of paying one conference $3B. Makes the NFL look almost angelic by comparison (almost).
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:07 pm
DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
More like 20- to 30-ish, but yeah.
Depends on whether you consider the end of the innocence to be the Ed O'Bannon era (the guy who brought the lawsuit about being compensated) or whether you consider the start of the BCS to be the true leap into insane money...
That might be the end of your innocence, but this has been going on since college football started...the only difference now is some extra zeroes and public sentiment largely favoring the athlete.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

Rotorooter wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:45 am I'm all for changing the system if someone can tell me how it would work and how it would eliminate cheating the system. Until then, I am in Roller's camp. ESPN, Fox, CBS and ABC are largely responsible for the mess we are in, as noted by Pete's notation of paying one conference $3B. Makes the NFL look almost angelic by comparison (almost).
This is totally backwards thinking. College football players have been getting paid since before TV was invented. TV networks are paying for programming that they can then sell to advertisers/subscribers...are they just supposed to say "no thanks" and not pay for college sports in order to preserve some sort of facade of "purity"? What will they tell their shareholders? What would that really accomplish anyway? LSU makes $4MM+ per home game, there would still be plenty of money to make it egregious not to compensate players.

You want to (largely) eliminate cheating? Remove the artificial restrictions on players' ability to earn money. There you go!
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

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You use LSU there. They are one of the very few schools who actually make a profit off their entire athletic program every year. Though they will lose $80 million this year. The rest lose money. So you want to play players more than what they already get. Remember it will be the fans paying higher prices to afford that. As to the players NO ONE is forcing them to play in college. They are very well compensated. They get full scholarships. Many in this country would love not to have their school loan debt. They get a roof over their head. They get good meals every day. They get medical care. They get thousands in stipends. If that's not enough sue the NFL to be allowed to play at 18. It's an NFL problem not an NCAA problem.
We still aren't there!
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by PeteRasche »

ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:50 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:07 pm
DCGreenie wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:19 pm
Roller wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm I think the primary compensation for a college athlete is simply the opportunity to play at that level in a game they love. It's not about money, beyond the fact that they can get an education that many could never hope to afford. Many of us would have paid dearly for the opportunity to participate, so just the fact of making the team is a very valuable compensation.
?? This is 60 years out of date.....
More like 20- to 30-ish, but yeah.
Depends on whether you consider the end of the innocence to be the Ed O'Bannon era (the guy who brought the lawsuit about being compensated) or whether you consider the start of the BCS to be the true leap into insane money...
That might be the end of your innocence, but this has been going on since college football started...the only difference now is some extra zeroes and public sentiment largely favoring the athlete.
No doubt. But I think the extra zeroes CAUSED the change in public sentiment and more importantly the attitude of the players. Without all the zeroes, maybe it's not as big of a deal and the players still feel happy to just have a free education.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:10 pm You use LSU there. They are one of the very few schools who actually make a profit off their entire athletic program every year. Though they will lose $80 million this year. The rest lose money. So you want to play players more than what they already get. Remember it will be the fans paying higher prices to afford that. As to the players NO ONE is forcing them to play in college. They are very well compensated. They get full scholarships. Many in this country would love not to have their school loan debt. They get a roof over their head. They get good meals every day. They get medical care. They get thousands in stipends. If that's not enough sue the NFL to be allowed to play at 18. It's an NFL problem not an NCAA problem.
Schools build lazy rivers and sleep pods and pay their coaches > NFL salaries because they don't know what to do with all the money they have. Heck, now they're paying out >$20MM in the depths of a pandemic for coaches not to coach. Any P5 athletic department can show a profit if they wanted to. It's also a myth that fans will pay higher prices if players are paid...tickets are priced to demand not to expenses. Sure, players get scholarships and that's great. Many in this country would love to have 3 square meals a day, does that mean your employer should pay you in chickens? Medical care is a great point...do you know that the medical care stops when they're out of school? Many football players have knee/hip/back problems for life (not to mention CTE) as a result of thousands of collisions and they're covering that on their own dime.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by wavedom »

ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:35 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:10 pm You use LSU there. They are one of the very few schools who actually make a profit off their entire athletic program every year. Though they will lose $80 million this year. The rest lose money. So you want to play players more than what they already get. Remember it will be the fans paying higher prices to afford that. As to the players NO ONE is forcing them to play in college. They are very well compensated. They get full scholarships. Many in this country would love not to have their school loan debt. They get a roof over their head. They get good meals every day. They get medical care. They get thousands in stipends. If that's not enough sue the NFL to be allowed to play at 18. It's an NFL problem not an NCAA problem.
Schools build lazy rivers and sleep pods and pay their coaches > NFL salaries because they don't know what to do with all the money they have. Heck, now they're paying out >$20MM in the depths of a pandemic for coaches not to coach. Any P5 athletic department can show a profit if they wanted to. It's also a myth that fans will pay higher prices if players are paid...tickets are priced to demand not to expenses. Sure, players get scholarships and that's great. Many in this country would love to have 3 square meals a day, does that mean your employer should pay you in chickens? Medical care is a great point...do you know that the medical care stops when they're out of school? Many football players have knee/hip/back problems for life (not to mention CTE) as a result of thousands of collisions and they're covering that on their own dime.
I believe LSU is the only one with a lazy river. The schools do lose money supporting all those non-revenue sports. As I said above no one forces them to play. If its so horrible let them pay their own way and just go to school or go get a a job.You're kidding yourself if you don't think ticket prices and seat fees won't go up.
We still aren't there!
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:00 pm
ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:35 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:10 pm You use LSU there. They are one of the very few schools who actually make a profit off their entire athletic program every year. Though they will lose $80 million this year. The rest lose money. So you want to play players more than what they already get. Remember it will be the fans paying higher prices to afford that. As to the players NO ONE is forcing them to play in college. They are very well compensated. They get full scholarships. Many in this country would love not to have their school loan debt. They get a roof over their head. They get good meals every day. They get medical care. They get thousands in stipends. If that's not enough sue the NFL to be allowed to play at 18. It's an NFL problem not an NCAA problem.
Schools build lazy rivers and sleep pods and pay their coaches > NFL salaries because they don't know what to do with all the money they have. Heck, now they're paying out >$20MM in the depths of a pandemic for coaches not to coach. Any P5 athletic department can show a profit if they wanted to. It's also a myth that fans will pay higher prices if players are paid...tickets are priced to demand not to expenses. Sure, players get scholarships and that's great. Many in this country would love to have 3 square meals a day, does that mean your employer should pay you in chickens? Medical care is a great point...do you know that the medical care stops when they're out of school? Many football players have knee/hip/back problems for life (not to mention CTE) as a result of thousands of collisions and they're covering that on their own dime.
I believe LSU is the only one with a lazy river. The schools do lose money supporting all those non-revenue sports. As I said above no one forces them to play. If its so horrible let them pay their own way and just go to school or go get a a job.You're kidding yourself if you don't think ticket prices and seat fees won't go up.
Many schools have their lazy river equivalent, and them losing money in the aggregate due to non-revenue sports is a lie they tell to try to keep their free labor (to use your point, no one forces them to have these non-revenue sports)...if you think schools are capable of charging higher prices but are choosing not to because they aren't paying players then you are the one kidding yourself. Note that pay to players has been basically zero forever yet ticket prices have somehow managed to continue to increase.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by Poseidon »

tulaneoutlaw wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:33 am
Poseidon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:02 pm Some College players are apprentices at football. Their apprentiship/time in college is just three years if they chose.

It is a blue-collar apprenticeship and there are associated health risk like tons of other blue collar jobs.

They are provided housing, meals, and now a 3-5000$ yearly stipend.

The main difference is it is much harder to become a master at football and go pro. This is offset by a degree/side apprentiship earned bsusiness, law, government, etc, which others have to pay for.

College players are not taken advantage of anymore than traditional apprentiships, internships, junoir associates, residencies, probationary employme etc.
I assume you mean apprenticeship in the modern sense. Because apprenticeships in the 1800s are certainly not a good proxy. I live in the home town of Andrew Johnson and while most know his presidency was poor, it's less well known that in his early years he was sold into an abusive tailor apprenticeship that he later had to literally run away and become an outlaw to escape. I assume that's not the system you are advocating.

I am speaking very broadly to the general Master/apprentice model. I know this model extends hundreds of years and has changed names and exist in many professions under different names. To be more precise...I am talking about working under directly under exceptional professional(s) in a line work where the trainee/apprentice does not earn market value for his work, but rather accepts less than market value in trade for guidance, teaching, job security(are allowed to make mistakes without quick firing of independent employment).

So taking the modern sense then, one thing apprentices have is freedom of movement. If they sign on to become an apprentice welder and later decide they don't love the company they work for, they can leave and go elsewhere. Can college football players do that? If the apprentices' mentor leaves the company the apprentice can choose to follow them elsewhere, stay on board, or transfer to a different company altogether. Can college football players do that?

It is definitely and issue, but I see them as downs the stream issues that symptoms of another problem

And who is setting the wages for these low skilled apprentices? Surely it's the many companies that hire apprentices for training. And if one company wants to pay apprentices more they can and others are welcome to match or surpass that amount. Is that how college football works? Are schools free to offer more money or other compensation to attract better apprentice players? Under the NCAA I don't think so.

That is the question right. Right now the NCAA makes the rules but the conferences set the wage minims, in form of minimum stipends. What makes this all the more complicated is that this is a closed adversarial system than depends on the existence of competition. It is the combined vested interest that each school be able to compete(even if that isn't the de facto case). Normal businesses have little to no consideration for the health or existence of competition, but in CFB the competitive structure is part of the product.

The supply of quality apprentices greatly affects the wages able to be paid as well. You note that becoming a master at pro football is very difficult and only a limited number of folks can reach that level. But the same could be said for those in college football as well. Very few high school players make it to college football of any level. And those that do play in front of large live and television audiences that think those players are good enough to be worth paying to see. So does the limited supply of quality college football players allow them to negotiate higher rates of pay? Or even any other kind of benefit? Seems like the market is being awfully skewed away from players by a bunch of arbitrary NCAA rules.

Your right and thats' kind of my point...see below

In short, I don't think your apprenticeship argument holds very much water.
...players aren't employees they are something different. I reached for the rough apprenticeship comparison. I immediately think of guilds of long ago in places where the were independent contractors were non existent. Nearly all of these problems arise because 18-21 year old football players don't have the option of a minor league or spot on the NFL roster to develop. The perception is skewed because higher education's whole structure is not modern.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

Poseidon wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:19 pm...players aren't employees they are something different. I reached for the rough apprenticeship comparison. I immediately think of guilds of long ago in places where the were independent contractors were non existent. Nearly all of these problems arise because 18-21 year old football players don't have the option of a minor league or spot on the NFL roster to develop. The perception is skewed because higher education's whole structure is not modern.
Based on the last ~4 months, they appear to be essential workers.
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by wavedom »

ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:00 pm
ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:35 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:10 pm You use LSU there. They are one of the very few schools who actually make a profit off their entire athletic program every year. Though they will lose $80 million this year. The rest lose money. So you want to play players more than what they already get. Remember it will be the fans paying higher prices to afford that. As to the players NO ONE is forcing them to play in college. They are very well compensated. They get full scholarships. Many in this country would love not to have their school loan debt. They get a roof over their head. They get good meals every day. They get medical care. They get thousands in stipends. If that's not enough sue the NFL to be allowed to play at 18. It's an NFL problem not an NCAA problem.
Schools build lazy rivers and sleep pods and pay their coaches > NFL salaries because they don't know what to do with all the money they have. Heck, now they're paying out >$20MM in the depths of a pandemic for coaches not to coach. Any P5 athletic department can show a profit if they wanted to. It's also a myth that fans will pay higher prices if players are paid...tickets are priced to demand not to expenses. Sure, players get scholarships and that's great. Many in this country would love to have 3 square meals a day, does that mean your employer should pay you in chickens? Medical care is a great point...do you know that the medical care stops when they're out of school? Many football players have knee/hip/back problems for life (not to mention CTE) as a result of thousands of collisions and they're covering that on their own dime.
I believe LSU is the only one with a lazy river. The schools do lose money supporting all those non-revenue sports. As I said above no one forces them to play. If its so horrible let them pay their own way and just go to school or go get a a job.You're kidding yourself if you don't think ticket prices and seat fees won't go up.
Many schools have their lazy river equivalent, and them losing money in the aggregate due to non-revenue sports is a lie they tell to try to keep their free labor (to use your point, no one forces them to have these non-revenue sports)...if you think schools are capable of charging higher prices but are choosing not to because they aren't paying players then you are the one kidding yourself. Note that pay to players has been basically zero forever yet ticket prices have somehow managed to continue to increase.
Cast all the aspersions you want but the fact is they lose money. They will be forced to charge higher prices when they take on the significant cost of paying a few hundred athletes. The cost will be passed on. It's folly to think otherwise.
We still aren't there!
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Rotorooter
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by Rotorooter »

ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:43 pm
Rotorooter wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:45 am I'm all for changing the system if someone can tell me how it would work and how it would eliminate cheating the system. Until then, I am in Roller's camp. ESPN, Fox, CBS and ABC are largely responsible for the mess we are in, as noted by Pete's notation of paying one conference $3B. Makes the NFL look almost angelic by comparison (almost).
This is totally backwards thinking. College football players have been getting paid since before TV was invented. TV networks are paying for programming that they can then sell to advertisers/subscribers...are they just supposed to say "no thanks" and not pay for college sports in order to preserve some sort of facade of "purity"? What will they tell their shareholders? What would that really accomplish anyway? LSU makes $4MM+ per home game, there would still be plenty of money to make it egregious not to compensate players.

You want to (largely) eliminate cheating? Remove the artificial restrictions on players' ability to earn money. There you go!
It's the details of the payments I want you to discuss. Of course it has all been under the table. But you cannot change one system without telling me what the new system will look like and expect me to go along with it. So, with that...your turn. Details. And don't just say, "pay the players." I want specifics. Do not forget to take into account pay by position, reserve vs. starter, transfers, graduate students, course requirements, etc., etc.
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ml wave
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Re: Worried About Evolution of College Football.....

Post by ml wave »

Rotorooter wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:01 pm
ml wave wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:43 pm
Rotorooter wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:45 am I'm all for changing the system if someone can tell me how it would work and how it would eliminate cheating the system. Until then, I am in Roller's camp. ESPN, Fox, CBS and ABC are largely responsible for the mess we are in, as noted by Pete's notation of paying one conference $3B. Makes the NFL look almost angelic by comparison (almost).
This is totally backwards thinking. College football players have been getting paid since before TV was invented. TV networks are paying for programming that they can then sell to advertisers/subscribers...are they just supposed to say "no thanks" and not pay for college sports in order to preserve some sort of facade of "purity"? What will they tell their shareholders? What would that really accomplish anyway? LSU makes $4MM+ per home game, there would still be plenty of money to make it egregious not to compensate players.

You want to (largely) eliminate cheating? Remove the artificial restrictions on players' ability to earn money. There you go!
It's the details of the payments I want you to discuss. Of course it has all been under the table. But you cannot change one system without telling me what the new system will look like and expect me to go along with it. So, with that...your turn. Details. And don't just say, "pay the players." I want specifics. Do not forget to take into account pay by position, reserve vs. starter, transfers, graduate students, course requirements, etc., etc.
I don't think it needs to be that complicated. Again, remove all artificial restrictions on players' ability to earn money. Nike wants to pay Trevor Lawrence, go ahead. We've all seen the reports of kids having to shut down their business selling t-shirts or whatever because they're on athletic scholarship--that's absurd. Let them monetize their social media followings...etc.
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