COVID vaccine update

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wavedom
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by wavedom »

AO Sig wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:46 pm As I write this I am 7 hours post Pfizer vaccine #2. So far there has been a little aching in the right arm, which is unusual since I got the first dose in the right arm, and the second dose in the left arm.

A few of interesting items in the medical news today. First, Pfizer claims 50% immunity with just one dose- this is about the same level of effectiveness as the flu shot ends up being. They have not told us if those who did not reach immunity had a milder case of the disease; maybe this data will be in future releases.

The second is another possible treatment for COVID. Ivermectin, a drug used for parasites (worms and other gross stuff in excrements), might actually reduce mortality and disease severity. it is not a very expensive drug, might be worth a try.

Third- I saw that there is a patient who had Hodgkins lymphoma developed COVID, and after he recovered apparently was cured of his lymphoma. I am not advocating COVID infection as a treatment for a potentially fatal malignancy; perhaps the immune response that the virus triggers will also knock out the tumor cells.

I took a couple of tylenol an hour before the vaccination, and just took a couple of aleve an hour or so ago; can't say whether this helped or not, but if I don't feel anything else, I am happy.
Thanks again for your detailed updates. Any suggestion for those who suffer cardiac issues post infection ?
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PeteRasche
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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AO Sig wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:00 pm NSAID's have an effect on inflammation through inhibition of cyclooxygenase, enzymes that produce prostaglandins and thromboxanes, which trigger inflammation in tissues. Antibodies are produced by activated B-cells; corticosteroids would be more likely to adversely affect the immunoglobulin production.
Exactly what I would have guessed! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, thanks for the updates.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by NJwave »

PeteRasche wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:49 am
AO Sig wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:00 pm NSAID's have an effect on inflammation through inhibition of cyclooxygenase, enzymes that produce prostaglandins and thromboxanes, which trigger inflammation in tissues. Antibodies are produced by activated B-cells; corticosteroids would be more likely to adversely affect the immunoglobulin production.
Exactly what I would have guessed! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, thanks for the updates.
His updates are very helpful and much appreciated, but I am going on Tiger Droppings so I can feel intellectually superior again. I thought immunoglobulins were my kids Halloween costumes.

Seriously though, keep the updates coming. The amateur doctors on Facebook are not helping.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by AO Sig »

Greetings fellow Wave Fans!

I am now 24 hours past the second dose. The Left arm is sore at the site of the injection, and I have had mild aching in the muscles of the neck, but not much else. Can't tell if I have fatigue increase, although I did take a nap after breakfast (could be age-related, however; no comments while you get out of my yard).

To be honest, I did expect some symptoms. You have heard the term inflammation; the four components of inflammation, as listed by Celsus in the the first century are "rubor et tumor et calor et dolor," or redness, swelling, warmth and pain. The pain and general symptoms suggests to me that the inflammatory pathways have been activated.

Most vaccines will stimulate activation and growth of a group of lymphocytes called B-cells. These are the ones that make antibodies (immunoglobulins for those who are wanting to glean information for bar trivia challenges) that are specifically directed toward an antigen- in this case the little proteins on the outside of the virus. This type of immunity is termed "humoral" immunity. Another component of immunity is termed "Cellular" immunity, this is done by a group of lymphocytes called T-cells, is done direct action of the cells, rather than producing a "bullet" or antibody. These vaccines are felt to also activate cellular immunity pathways.

Ok, lesson over. My medical assistant has tons of trepidation about the second shot, as she has heard horror studies about side effects being a lot worse with the second dose; she has ordered me to let her know tomorrow how I have done. I am trying to think of some clever side effects to enhance the consternation she has as I describe the diffuse blistering rash, the sensation of ants crawling over every part of my body, the sounds of jets landing in my ears, the flashing lights with intermittent loss of vision, and the uncontrollable urge to "break wind." I figure that by the last one she might realize i am pulling her leg.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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AO Sig wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:37 pmMy medical assistant has tons of trepidation about the second shot, as she has heard horror studies about side effects being a lot worse with the second dose; she has ordered me to let her know tomorrow how I have done. I am trying to think of some clever side effects to enhance the consternation she has as I describe the diffuse blistering rash, the sensation of ants crawling over every part of my body, the sounds of jets landing in my ears, the flashing lights with intermittent loss of vision, and the uncontrollable urge to "break wind." I figure that by the last one she might realize i am pulling her leg.
Just tell her it feels like Sunday morning after a Saturday night in the FQ.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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TUPF wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:57 pm
AO Sig wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:37 pmMy medical assistant has tons of trepidation about the second shot, as she has heard horror studies about side effects being a lot worse with the second dose; she has ordered me to let her know tomorrow how I have done. I am trying to think of some clever side effects to enhance the consternation she has as I describe the diffuse blistering rash, the sensation of ants crawling over every part of my body, the sounds of jets landing in my ears, the flashing lights with intermittent loss of vision, and the uncontrollable urge to "break wind." I figure that by the last one she might realize i am pulling her leg.
Just tell her it feels like Sunday morning after a Saturday night in the FQ.
As in after a visit to the Dungeon, post 3 or 4 Pete's specials at Pat O's?
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by PeteRasche »

Careful AO, scare her too much and she'll skip the vaccination...

From day one we've seen reports in the news (from people in the phase 3 trials) recommending you schedule a day off work after the second shot because it can really wipe you out. I took it with a relative grain of salt because some people can't "play through the pain" the way others can. But when my day comes I'm hoping I can schedule the second shot on a Friday so I can rest over a weekend.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by AO Sig »

Pete, that is the reason my wife asked me to check and see if she could get her second dose yesterday. she got her first dose the day after mine, but had been told to come back for dose #2 on Monday; I asked while in line if she was good to go, and she came over yesterday for #2. she has had more symptoms than I did, noting more flu-like symptoms than I have had. It is not disabling, but she does note it enough to have led her to check her temperature a few minutes ago. Since son starts his Spring semester next week, she wanted to get any post-injection side effects out of the way before the classes start.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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So I thought I would leave this here. Any thoughts are welcome and know that I am a staunch skeptic and dont just take advice and run with it. This past thursday my wife tested postive. She most likely contracted it from someone(we'll refer to her as "person X")who she saw last saturday. My wife works from home and we are defintely on the more self isolation end of spectrum. Person X took a rapid test with a negtive result and the day before she passed it to my wife. Person X is an attorney and her father is a GP and not an irresponsible individual. So lesson is that even taking very messured risk you can get this.
That said my wife's symptoms so far are coughing after mild exertion. Mild to moderate headaches, nausea, brain fog, and pain when sleeping on the left side. She was given a z-pac, albuterol if needed, and phenergan if needed for nausea. She has been suplementing with basic postnatal vitamins, 1g vit C, 33mg Zinc, 1200 mg Quercetin, 10,000 IU of vit D. I have been supplementing with those, sans postnatal, and laundry list of other things.
My wife is also still breastfeeding our 5 month old boy. She wears a mask when brestfeeding, at request of the child's pediatrician. Our current hosuhold is mysself 38, my wife 36, boy 5, girl 2, boy 5 months. Distancing within the househild proved to be more stressful than it was worth withing 24 hours with the small kids.
I have had no syptoms that werent already present(lack of sleep due to 3 kids under 5 with breastfeeding wife). Children have exhibited no symptoms.
Eevryome feel free to comment, ignore, chastise, or whatever.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Poseidon wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:38 pm So I thought I would leave this here. Any thoughts are welcome and know that I am a staunch skeptic and dont just take advice and run with it. This past thursday my wife tested postive. She most likely contracted it from someone(we'll refer to her as "person X")who she saw last saturday. My wife works from home and we are defintely on the more self isolation end of spectrum. Person X took a rapid test with a negtive result and the day before she passed it to my wife. Person X is an attorney and her father is a GP and not an irresponsible individual. So lesson is that even taking very messured risk you can get this.
That said my wife's symptoms so far are coughing after mild exertion. Mild to moderate headaches, nausea, brain fog, and pain when sleeping on the left side. She was given a z-pac, albuterol if needed, and phenergan if needed for nausea. She has been suplementing with basic postnatal vitamins, 1g vit C, 33mg Zinc, 1200 mg Quercetin, 10,000 IU of vit D. I have been supplementing with those, sans postnatal, and laundry list of other things.
My wife is also still breastfeeding our 5 month old boy. She wears a mask when brestfeeding, at request of the child's pediatrician. Our current hosuhold is mysself 38, my wife 36, boy 5, girl 2, boy 5 months. Distancing within the househild proved to be more stressful than it was worth withing 24 hours with the small kids.
I have had no syptoms that werent already present(lack of sleep due to 3 kids under 5 with breastfeeding wife). Children have exhibited no symptoms.
Eevryome feel free to comment, ignore, chastise, or whatever.
All the best to you and your family. I hope your wife recovers quickly.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Poseidon wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:38 pm So I thought I would leave this here. Any thoughts are welcome and know that I am a staunch skeptic and dont just take advice and run with it. This past thursday my wife tested postive. She most likely contracted it from someone(we'll refer to her as "person X")who she saw last saturday. My wife works from home and we are defintely on the more self isolation end of spectrum. Person X took a rapid test with a negtive result and the day before she passed it to my wife. Person X is an attorney and her father is a GP and not an irresponsible individual. So lesson is that even taking very messured risk you can get this.
That said my wife's symptoms so far are coughing after mild exertion. Mild to moderate headaches, nausea, brain fog, and pain when sleeping on the left side. She was given a z-pac, albuterol if needed, and phenergan if needed for nausea. She has been suplementing with basic postnatal vitamins, 1g vit C, 33mg Zinc, 1200 mg Quercetin, 10,000 IU of vit D. I have been supplementing with those, sans postnatal, and laundry list of other things.
My wife is also still breastfeeding our 5 month old boy. She wears a mask when brestfeeding, at request of the child's pediatrician. Our current hosuhold is mysself 38, my wife 36, boy 5, girl 2, boy 5 months. Distancing within the househild proved to be more stressful than it was worth withing 24 hours with the small kids.
I have had no syptoms that werent already present(lack of sleep due to 3 kids under 5 with breastfeeding wife). Children have exhibited no symptoms.
Eevryome feel free to comment, ignore, chastise, or whatever.
In my earlier family story I didn't mention my wife is still breastfeeding our little one also. It was very stressful for her to try and distance from him for the first couple of days and impossible to do so completely. I can only imagine what that would be like with 3 little ones. I hope and pray this passes quickly for you and your family and that you all recover to 100% soon. Hang in there.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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My observations from four different families we know who have gotten COVID-19.
- The men seemed to experience much worse symptoms than the women, although it seems like the women lost their sense of smell and taste more markedly and it lasted for weeks to months. Brain fog for the women more so, which if you Google it anecdotally indicates altering of brain chemistry. No one yet knows lasting effects if any.
- Major weight loss in all the men accompanied by can't get out of bed fatigue. 40 pounds for one 250 pounder, and 20 pounds for a 180 pounder, all in 2-3 weeks.
- Don't trust the rapid COVID test as an "all clear" because it's only a snapshot in time and maybe means your viral load just yet hasn't reached the test's trip point. That's what we saw for one male--tested negative on a Monday, felt worse on Tuesday, tested positive on Wednesday again with the rapid test, and was treated in the ER on Thursday for difficulty breathing.
- My ER MD and RN friends say if your O2 levels dip under 90% you are in for intervention of some kind (supplemental O2 possibly leading to all the nasty stuff like intubation). They have also said that a COVID person shows terrible lung X-rays, as if you've been a 3-pack a day smoker for years and describe the films like looking at broken glass shards.
- Spiking fevers of 100-102 usually during the evenings, sometimes breaking overnight, and starting all over again the next day. This persisted for a week to 10 days on several.
-One family definitely had their 14 YO son as the COVID vector. A school classmate showed symptoms in mid December and the school closed early for Christmas break because of it, but several classmates including our family member brought it home to his 11YO brother and both parents. The kids only showed sore throats and fevers of 99-100 and some fatigue, but nothing like the two weeks of he!! for both parents. No one died but recovery is slow accompanied by the need for 3-4 hour naps daily.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Cheerleader wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:13 pm Well, Governor DeSantis gave the order about 2 weeks ago to his health dept. to offer vaccines to anyone over 65 years old after they had given it to all the health care and nursing homes. He didn't discriminate on race, first responders, teachers, grocery workers, etc, just if you were over 65 (where 80% of the fatal cases come from). Each county was allotted vaccines based on population and they had to figure out how to handle it best. Some did it great, others terrible. The best ones used private companies to help out. He then decided that Publix grocery stores would be a good place to distribute from so he gave an allotment to each of them. I'll bet Florida has given out more vaccines than any place in the nation per capita. I'll also bet that the Feds see this and have given him more vaccines to keep it going. He's done a great job and gets very little criticism here. Of course the national news media doesn't cover it.
Interesting considering that West Virginia, the only state to not sign private contracts with pharmacies, is at the top of the list for good distribution.

Also Florida, and it’s leadership, has more than shown its colors in this crisis.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Poseidon—- wishing the best to you and yours
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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WaveProf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:03 amInteresting considering that West Virginia, the only state to not sign private contracts with pharmacies, is at the top of the list for good distribution.
They had a really easy time convincing all 12 people in the state who don't think it's all a government plot to get the vaccine, eh? :lol:
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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WaveProf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:03 amAlso Florida, and it’s leadership, has more than shown its colors in this crisis.
We live in Florida and love it. Not sure what you mean by "shown its colors".

Here is some data from the New York Times. Covid deaths per 100,000:

New Jersey 228
New York 206
Massachusetts 195
Rhode Island 188
Connecticut 184

Florida 110

Of course, Florida does not have an elderly population like those northeastern states. NO, Florida has many retirees. Of course, Florida required senior living establishments to accept residents who were infected with Covid. NO, that was New York (and New Jersey?).

So again I ask, given these death rates, what does it mean to say Florida has "shown it colors"?
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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CT Wave wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:37 pm
WaveProf wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:03 amAlso Florida, and it’s leadership, has more than shown its colors in this crisis.
We live in Florida and love it. Not sure what you mean by "shown its colors".

Here is some data from the New York Times. Covid deaths per 100,000:

New Jersey 228
New York 206
Massachusetts 195
Rhode Island 188
Connecticut 184

Florida 110

Of course, Florida does not have an elderly population like those northeastern states. NO, Florida has many retirees. Of course, Florida required senior living establishments to accept residents who were infected with Covid. NO, that was New York (and New Jersey?).

So again I ask, given these death rates, what does it mean to say Florida has "shown it colors"?
According to a recent article I read, Florida has more cases per 100,000 people than New York and New Jersey. It does have less deaths. By almost any metric the US has done worse than almost any country in the world in controlling COVID, testing and now distributing vaccines. Comparing who has done less worse is the equivalent of debating the quality of two 1-10 teams.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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NJwave wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:59 pmComparing who has done less worse is the equivalent of debating the quality of two 1-10 teams.
Thanks for the chuckle.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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NJwave wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:59 pmAccording to a recent article I read, Florida has more cases per 100,000 people than New York and New Jersey. It does have less deaths. By almost any metric the US has done worse than almost any country in the world in controlling COVID, testing and now distributing vaccines. Comparing who has done less worse is the equivalent of debating the quality of two 1-10 teams.
Cases per capita is a meaningless statistic. Deaths are what matters. Why are "cases" meaningless? Because if you conduct more tests, you find more "confirmed cases". Since the actual infections are 10-50X times the number of confirmed cases, you should be able to understand that deaths are the significant indicator. But sure, you read a recent article.

My comment had nothing to do with USA vs any other country. Simply was responding to the Florida has shown its colors remark. And so far, nobody chooses to try and defend or explain it.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by noladave »

thanks for all of the info. i get my 1st shot Tuesday, as I work for a health care/education institution, and all of the direct patient care personnel have been taken care of, and they are moving to faculty/staff. my doctor did say he was sore after the 2nd injection. guess I will find out in February
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Don't really want to wade into the florida vs other states thing, but I will say deaths/capita is only one statistic that matters. It might be most important, but I don't think those that spend days or weeks in the hospital in ICU before recovering are insignificant data points. Nor those that test positive and have to miss work thereby impacting economic activity. Or those that have to deal with long term impacts to the quality of life. Quantifying these is much more difficult, of course, but being hard to measure doesn't mean they should be ignored.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I have to agree that the amount of testing does play a role in number of cases. My partner developed mild respiratory symptoms; she decided to get herself tested, and discovered she was positive for COVID. Her daughter also was tested, found to be positive. Both of her parents were also positive; they had mild respiratory symptoms, and all have fully recovered. her husband finally came into the office for antibody testing in anticipation he would be going for the vaccine (he is a teacher and basketball coach). Despite his having no symptoms whatsoever, he was positive for the COVID antibodies.

The source of the infection is totally uncertain. The daughter is participating in dance; perhaps one of the parents was among the "I have a constitutional right not to wear a mask" and shared the virus with other families. Dad could have picked it up from basketball players or their families. The partner has been meticulous in her dealings with patients, and we have a rather strict screening before someone gets in the door to protect other patients.

I was in Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge yesterday with son- went to aquarium there, then did some shopping and lunch (first time out of the Tri-Cities in 9 months). The place was packed, and there were a lot of people who were protecting their Adam's apple from COVID, or did not understand that air moves in and out of the nose (I realize that this is opening up the possibility of "mouth breather" jokes- as Outlaw will attest, this might fit). Personally, I hope that those people who refuse to understand that masks do more to protect others from them than the reverse will be willing to get the vaccines when available. I fully expect 1 or 2 more to be submitted to the FDA by Valentine's day.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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AO Sig wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 am I have to agree that the amount of testing does play a role in number of cases. My partner developed mild respiratory symptoms; she decided to get herself tested, and discovered she was positive for COVID. Her daughter also was tested, found to be positive. Both of her parents were also positive; they had mild respiratory symptoms, and all have fully recovered. her husband finally came into the office for antibody testing in anticipation he would be going for the vaccine (he is a teacher and basketball coach). Despite his having no symptoms whatsoever, he was positive for the COVID antibodies.
Did the husband still get the vaccine? What is the purpose of the antibody test (other than the obvious of showing he already had it)?
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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CT Wave wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:09 pm
NJwave wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:59 pmAccording to a recent article I read, Florida has more cases per 100,000 people than New York and New Jersey. It does have less deaths. By almost any metric the US has done worse than almost any country in the world in controlling COVID, testing and now distributing vaccines. Comparing who has done less worse is the equivalent of debating the quality of two 1-10 teams.
Cases per capita is a meaningless statistic. Deaths are what matters. Why are "cases" meaningless? Because if you conduct more tests, you find more "confirmed cases". Since the actual infections are 10-50X times the number of confirmed cases, you should be able to understand that deaths are the significant indicator. But sure, you read a recent article.

My comment had nothing to do with USA vs any other country. Simply was responding to the Florida has shown its colors remark. And so far, nobody chooses to try and defend or explain it.
I'll go! Florida is run by a bunch of idiots who chose to largely ignore the crisis for a while and let people enjoy spring break and such. Just guessing though.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Quote of the day: "protecting their Adam's apple from COVID".

Well done, AOSig!
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