COVID vaccine update

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CT Wave
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Re: COVID vaccine update

Post by CT Wave »

tulaneoutlaw wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:50 am Don't really want to wade into the florida vs other states thing, but I will say deaths/capita is only one statistic that matters. It might be most important, but I don't think those that spend days or weeks in the hospital in ICU before recovering are insignificant data points. Nor those that test positive and have to miss work thereby impacting economic activity. Or those that have to deal with long term impacts to the quality of life. Quantifying these is much more difficult, of course, but being hard to measure doesn't mean they should be ignored.
No argument from me on these points, Outlaw. I would expect that these conditions correlate well to deaths, but I have no supporting data, just an opinion.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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CT Wave wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:22 am
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:50 am Don't really want to wade into the florida vs other states thing, but I will say deaths/capita is only one statistic that matters. It might be most important, but I don't think those that spend days or weeks in the hospital in ICU before recovering are insignificant data points. Nor those that test positive and have to miss work thereby impacting economic activity. Or those that have to deal with long term impacts to the quality of life. Quantifying these is much more difficult, of course, but being hard to measure doesn't mean they should be ignored.
No argument from me on these points, Outlaw. I would expect that these conditions correlate well to deaths, but I have no supporting data, just an opinion.
Given the population density of New York, New Jersey and many parts of Florida it is reasonable to expect that all three states would have significantly more cases/deaths per capita compared to some other states. There are arguments to be made about the large initial number of people from Europe that arrived in this area when this all started causing higher infection rates. I would also say that when this started there were a lot of people from this area that extended their annual winter trips to Florida which probably didn't help Florida's cause. Conversely, there are people that returned here not knowing they had been infected in Florida and sadly passed away after returning further skewing the statistics in this area.

I didn't start the trashing of Florida and my points were not intended to do so. My point was simply that it is very difficult to dispute how badly the Federal Government response has been. There is almost no part of this country where things have fared well.
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PeteRasche
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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A guy I know posted something yesterday that my wife read me. Basically said "imagine what kind of news it would be if 10 jumbo jets crashed in America in a single day and everyone aboard died.... that's how many people died in a single day last week from COVID, and everyone yawned and went about their normal business."

Eye-opening, that one.

Another way of looking at it (which I've seen before) is that we're losing significantly more people DAILY than we did on 9/11. The word Patriot was re-born on that day (the anniversary is even called "Patriot's Day") yet those using the title "Patriot" these days are the ones refusing to wear masks and claiming it's fake news.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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There you go again, Pete. You just labeled anyone who is a Patriot as someone who objects to wearing masks. I am a patriot and I always wear a mask, do not burn buildings and do not break into government buildings. Please keep your political biases to yourself. We who live in Florida are not idiots or non-patriots or are the instigators of Covid. Stop the stereotyping. Prof is bad enough, but you shouldn't lower yourself to his level.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Cheerleader, thou dost protest too much. You know darn well the connotation that the word "Patriot" has taken in the past, let's say, decade or so, and don't play dumb and say you don't. We can all be patriotic - I am too - but claiming these days to be a "Patriot" is unequivocally declaring a certain set of beliefs and the following of certain leaders (those who ridicule people in masks as scared or "sheep") and don't act like you don't know that.

Unless you are talking Boston-area NFL, of course. :wink:
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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NJwave wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:12 am
CT Wave wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:22 am
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:50 am Don't really want to wade into the florida vs other states thing, but I will say deaths/capita is only one statistic that matters. It might be most important, but I don't think those that spend days or weeks in the hospital in ICU before recovering are insignificant data points. Nor those that test positive and have to miss work thereby impacting economic activity. Or those that have to deal with long term impacts to the quality of life. Quantifying these is much more difficult, of course, but being hard to measure doesn't mean they should be ignored.
No argument from me on these points, Outlaw. I would expect that these conditions correlate well to deaths, but I have no supporting data, just an opinion.
Given the population density of New York, New Jersey and many parts of Florida it is reasonable to expect that all three states would have significantly more cases/deaths per capita compared to some other states. There are arguments to be made about the large initial number of people from Europe that arrived in this area when this all started causing higher infection rates. I would also say that when this started there were a lot of people from this area that extended their annual winter trips to Florida which probably didn't help Florida's cause. Conversely, there are people that returned here not knowing they had been infected in Florida and sadly passed away after returning further skewing the statistics in this area.

I didn't start the trashing of Florida and my points were not intended to do so. My point was simply that it is very difficult to dispute how badly the Federal Government response has been. There is almost no part of this country where things have fared well.
This is definitely part of it, the northeast/New York/NJ had their first peak early when we didn't know how to treat it. That definitely skewed the death numbers.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:50 pm Cheerleader, thou dost protest too much. You know darn well the connotation that the word "Patriot" has taken in the past, let's say, decade or so, and don't play dumb and say you don't. We can all be patriotic - I am too - but claiming these days to be a "Patriot" is unequivocally declaring a certain set of beliefs and the following of certain leaders (those who ridicule people in masks as scared or "sheep") and don't act like you don't know that.

Unless you are talking Boston-area NFL, of course. :wink:
That was pretty weak, Pete. You are falling into the trap of stereotyping people...identity politics. Just turn it around. Do I claim everyone who calls themselves a "progressive" is "unequivocally declaring a certain set of beliefs and the following of certain leaders (those who ridicule people who live in certain states or areas of the country or who believe different things from you.) and don't act like you don't know that. We need to quit this cr*p before we cannot have any common ground. I am trying to stay away from politics, but you are making it difficult.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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You know who else thought they were a patriot? Four Leaf Tayback
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Can we like Patriots better now that Brady is gone? :wink:
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Patriots Day is the third Monday in April. Just sayin
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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gerryb323 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:20 am
AO Sig wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 am I have to agree that the amount of testing does play a role in number of cases. My partner developed mild respiratory symptoms; she decided to get herself tested, and discovered she was positive for COVID. Her daughter also was tested, found to be positive. Both of her parents were also positive; they had mild respiratory symptoms, and all have fully recovered. her husband finally came into the office for antibody testing in anticipation he would be going for the vaccine (he is a teacher and basketball coach). Despite his having no symptoms whatsoever, he was positive for the COVID antibodies.
Did the husband still get the vaccine? What is the purpose of the antibody test (other than the obvious of showing he already had it)?
If he did not have the antibodies he was planning to get the vaccine. At this time people who have had the infection are told not to get the vaccine for at least 3 months.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Cheerleader wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:57 pm You are falling into the trap of stereotyping people...identity politics. Just turn it around.
Not doing it myself, just observing what is going on in the country.
Cheerleader wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:57 pmDo I claim everyone who calls themselves a "progressive" is "unequivocally declaring a certain set of beliefs and the following of certain leaders (those who ridicule people who live in certain states or areas of the country or who believe different things from you.) and don't act like you don't know that.
I didn't get a question out of that but the point of my post above isn't what you claim or I claim, it's that certain words these days have been co-opted to mean different things. If you go somewhere where no one knows you whatsoever and wear a shirt that says "I'm a Patriot", everyone who sees you is going to immediately make assumptions about you. That's not me calling you a name, that's not me saying anything about what's right and what's wrong or commenting on where you live or judging your beliefs or anything else. That's just observation of what's going on in the world. If you say you are a Patriot, you are judged. If you say Black Lives Matter, you are judged. If you say All Lives Matter, you are judged. If you say you aren't worried about getting COVID and you are going to live your life, you are judged. If you say "wear a damn mask!" you are judged. It sucks.
Cheerleader wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:57 pmWe need to quit this cr*p before we cannot have any common ground.
As TUPF says, we are in violent agreement. My fear, and it's more a fear for my kids, is that that toothpaste won't ever get back in the tube. The seeds of pubic distrust of any media have been sown and taken root. People want to blame the outgoing president for all of it, but everything he did needed fertile ground to take root... I have another theory: remember decades ago when people started noticing how kids were starting to get everything they wanted, parents were "their friend" instead of their parent, no one ever learned to deal with things not going their way, and people said "things are going to be bad when they grow up"? Guess what, they grew up. No one takes responsibility for anything, no one admits they are wrong, no one will ever believe anything they hear in the news that doesn't 100% jive with their beliefs. Instead of seeking information, learning, and forming an opinion, people decide what they believe (often based on who or what makes them feel good) and then they seek out a news source that only gives them that spin. They aren't aware that any other views of the topic even exist, or if they are aware, they think those views are fake news. Case in point, half the country thinks Trump supporters stormed the Capitol and the other half thinks Antifa dressed as Trump supporters stormed the Capitol to make Trump look bad. Neither side will even consider hearing that the other side might be right because it would make them look bad. And then throw on top of that today's connected world where you can easily find someone out there who believes anything you do, no matter how crazy. I just don't see things ever going back to "common ground" because it would take both sides admitting fault.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I agree with Pete, 100%, except for the pubic distrust part.
Last edited by wave-em in on Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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krewe of ham and eggs wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:36 pm You know who else thought they were a patriot? Four Leaf Tayback
I'm retroactively awarding you post of the day. The fact that Tropic Thunder came out the fall I arrived at Tulane means it holds a special place in my heart. Alas that it came out in 2008 also makes me feel old.

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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I violently agree that at this time in our country, we are very judgmental.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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AO Sig wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:46 pm As I write this I am 7 hours post Pfizer vaccine #2. So far there has been a little aching in the right arm, which is unusual since I got the first dose in the right arm, and the second dose in the left arm.

I took a couple of tylenol an hour before the vaccination, and just took a couple of aleve an hour or so ago; can't say whether this helped or not, but if I don't feel anything else, I am happy.
Thanks for keeping us informed of your first-hand issues with treatment. As an auto-immune patient, I'm very interested in this vaccine. (To stay in remission, I get an infusion that wipes out my B-cells. So you can see my concern.)
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I've seen a slew of doctor friends posting so-called "vaxxies" (selfie as you are getting your vaccine shot) while getting round two. A few of them reported being somewhat knocked out the next day (really tired, spent a lot of time resting), soreness in the arm, headaches. None of them considered it too bad. These are all people in the 35-50 age range.

Hopefully this is the case with almost everyone.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I don’t believe one can give oneself the name patriot (small p) any more than one can call oneself hero, good guy, or mensch. It’s earned by one’s actions sometimes at great personal risk, as observed by others. I have had the honor of knowing a handful of people like that in my life and to a person they would say they were just doing what was right, usually while no one was looking.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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TUPF wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:18 pm I don’t believe one can give oneself the name patriot (small p) any more than one can call oneself hero, good guy, or mensch. It’s earned by one’s actions sometimes at great personal risk, as observed by others. I have had the honor of knowing a handful of people like that in my life and to a person they would say they were just doing what was right, usually while no one was looking.
You mean patriots don't grandstand for a lost cause?
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Down here they always have.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Soon, a lot more will call themselves patriots.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump- ... 5fMzg1Bkbs
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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FFS dial down the political bullsiht I come here for a break
Using big words is not a personal attack
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I did some light reading this am; two things caught my eye. I saw preliminary data suggesting that two meds I use, tociliumab (Actemra) and sarilumab (Kevzara) now have data that shows they might reduce mortality in the severely ill patients. They block Interleukin -6, which is a powerful pro-inflammation protein signal in our bodies. This data has not been peer-reviewed (in other words some of statistics wonks have not gotten to look at it), but it is hopeful. I read this a few days ago, but is a positive.

Another thing I saw is more interesting. There is something out of Washington U. that reports that patients who went on to worse hospitalizations and outcomes were producing a lot more mitochondrial DNA than others with milder disease courses. As a refresher on biology, the mitochondria are the "powerhouse" of the cells, where energy for the cells is produced. They have their own DNA; as an interesting sideline these come from Mom's cells, so mitochondrial DNA can be used to determine where your mother's family originated. Anyway, they said that they are developing a test that can be done at the time a patient is admitted to the hospital that measures mitochondrial DNA levels. Those with high mitochondrial DNA levels are more likely to have bad courses, so they might identify the people that pre-emptive treatments might need to be used earlier.

To Marathonwave- I pretty much know precisely which medication you are taking; since it knocks out the activated B cells, I would suggest that if a vaccine is offered you, consider getting it a few weeks after your dose (so that the medication does not knock out the activated B cells making the antibodies against the viral proteins). That is, at least, my opinion; I had this very discussion with a patient this week.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Good stuff as always, AO Sig. Don't shrinks say always blame it on the mother? :-D
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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gerryb323 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:01 pm Patriots Day is the third Monday in April. Just sayin
Boston Marathon.
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