COVID vaccine update

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krewe of ham and eggs
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Don't let this all distract you from the fact that the Earth is flat
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TUPF
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Roller wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:13 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:14 pm
NJwave wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:21 pmDo we really have to convince Tulane people the severity of this virus all these months later?
Yes because half the country has been told it's fake news.
And because "credible" sources keep reporting diametrically opposite statistics. And sometimes, those conflicting "sources" are the same person! (e.g., Anthony Fauci)
Examples, please. And don't go with the old trope about masks. What was thought at first evolved. My mother smoked when I was in utero in 1956, too. People learn (well, some do).
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tulaneoutlaw
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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TUPF wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:33 pm
Roller wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:13 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:14 pm
NJwave wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:21 pmDo we really have to convince Tulane people the severity of this virus all these months later?
Yes because half the country has been told it's fake news.
And because "credible" sources keep reporting diametrically opposite statistics. And sometimes, those conflicting "sources" are the same person! (e.g., Anthony Fauci)
Examples, please. And don't go with the old trope about masks. What was thought at first evolved. My mother smoked when I was in utero in 1956, too. People learn (well, some do).
The mask thing early was a blatant lie. Experts trying to claim that "no evidence of working" is the same as "this intervention doesn't work" still gets me riled. Experts can only blame themselves for loss of credibility on that one.

I'm in the camp with you TUPF, but recently Fauci did say in an interview he has fudged the thresholds for vaccine herd immunity. When polls showed only 50% of people would take the vaccine, he said that 60-70% was needed for herd immunity. Then as polls started to creep up to 60% would take the vaccine he said we needed 70-80% to reach herd immunity. His intention was good; by moving the number upward he hoped to use his influence to encourage more to get vaccinated. But that looks a lot like government manipulation to plenty. Public health folks in general are going to need a generation or more to recover public faith from large swaths of the population.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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There was also a lot of stuff we did not know and later learned, some of which was then publicized (and appeared to be the source flip-flopping), and some of which was just buried, whether for political reasons or some other reason. This is why I said in an earlier post that people should turn to doctors and experts in virology and epidemiology instead of "news" sources.

Perfect case in point: the woman I follow (and have mentioned here several times over the past 9 months) who holds multiple degrees in these fields and is literally an expert at this stuff, Dr. Jennifer Kasten ... back in the early summer she quoted multiple studies from various countries around the world who had been dealing with COVID longer than the US (and without the political divide), which showed that there was little-to-no chance of it spreading via contact ("fomite" transmission), only airborne through moisture droplets. She literally said we should stop bleaching our groceries and quarantining our mail, and not worry about wearing gloves when we go out in public and all of that. This got NO traction anywhere. Stores have people wiping down grocery carts, register counters, everything, with clorox wipes. Sanitizer and wipes are still selling like hotcakes, and many businesses (breweries and distilleries especially) converted to making sanitizer. Well, per what these studies showed, that was all moot with regards to the spread of COVID. But did America hear about that? Nope.... until LITERALLY LAST WEEK when a news story hit the wire, quite on the down-low, that some "recent study" showed that COVID did not really spread via surface contact and was not really being spread by fomite transmission. Did y'all hear about that? I'm betting you didn't. But I've known it (and even posted here about it) for over half a year because I follow doctors and not news media.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:03 pm Did y'all hear about that? I'm betting you didn't. But I've known it (and even posted here about it) for over half a year because I follow doctors and not news media.
For months the advice from the CDC/government has been 6 foot distancing and wear a mask and wash your hands (good advice in any circumstance).

People (including me) did the extra stuff (gloves, quarantine, wipe-downs), but out of caution not some mandate. But that has died down.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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One interesting thing that I have noticed; we have not seen the number of cases of influenza that we normally see. I have heard that the number of people getting their flu vaccines is up; I also suspect that the use of the masks (which I feel protect others from me more than protecting me from others), and the distancing, might be reducing the transmission of the virus.

Last year the "experts" were worrying about a double medical crisis; I don't think that the crisis has occurred.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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TUPF wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:33 pm
Roller wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:13 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:14 pm
NJwave wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:21 pmDo we really have to convince Tulane people the severity of this virus all these months later?
Yes because half the country has been told it's fake news.
And because "credible" sources keep reporting diametrically opposite statistics. And sometimes, those conflicting "sources" are the same person! (e.g., Anthony Fauci)
Examples, please. And don't go with the old trope about masks. What was thought at first evolved. My mother smoked when I was in utero in 1956, too. People learn (well, some do).
Well, for one thing, there was the call to take steps to achieve "herd immunity," followed closely by the statements that being infected by the virus did not give you lasting immunity. Then there were conflicting, flip-flopping reports about whether you were contagious if you were asymptomatic. Then the back-and-forth about whether Hydroxychlorquine was an effective treatment (several friends have gone that route and got better--one of whom was in an induced coma and on a ventilator during his 5-week stay in the hospital; but one week after switching him to an HCQ regimen, he was able to go home. The Doctor told his wife that he had been "as close to death as a person can get without actually dying."), And there were several "expert" opinions about masks--whether they help the wearer or the people with whom the wearer comes into contact; whether a simple home-made cotton cloth would help or whether you need a surgical-quality product (N95 rated?); whether to wear a mask outdoors has been on-again, off-again, as well; they've scatter-gunned the recommended "social distance." too--I've seen a recommendation for everything from 6 feet to 20 feet; the recommended maximum gathering size has been all over the map, too.
I realize that all this wishy-washiness was part of a learning curve, but the flip-flopping and evolving guidance has caused a lot of folks to be sceptical.

Add to this the very human nature of some folks who, when they decide they may have gotten poor advice have decided to ignore ALL advice. One of my neighbors has a wife and 3 daughters, and none of them has ever worn a mask--even when they went to a concert and grocery shopping. They have never encounter any objection, and they have had no sickness, so the parents are convinced that the masks are not necessary; their parents come for visits from out of state, and they don't wear masks when they're here, either.

Personally, I think the "belt-and-suspenders" approach that many jurisdictions took was too much overkill and caused people to become more prone to ignoring guidelines--especially in places that have a lot lower incidence of infections.

Of course, like all anecdotal evidence, the above can all be easily refuted, but my point is, the inconsistency of the message has turned off a lot of people, so they are not so diligent about following medical advice with regard to this disease.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Roller, thanks for your thoughtful and apolitical reply. Hard to do in America 2021.

I think because I am a nuclear engineer and was the radiological controls officer on a real nuclear reactor with real alpha particle and gamma ray concerns; served as the nuclear weapons security officer on a boat with nuclear warhead carrying cruise missile capability; and GE Nuclear Energy's nuclear services manager for several commercial nuclear power plants; I have a different perspective than many regarding the potential spread of nasties. We know how to do that. It's not like I have to wear full anti-c's when I go to Costco.

Folks with my background are experienced with "embracing the suck" when it behooves one to make small sacrifices for the common good whether or not it personally benefits. I have very little patience with the non-mask wearing, quibbling with social distancing measuring stick, folks. If they get sick they get sick. As my mom used to say, don't come crying to me when it happens.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I understand all the whys of what got us to this point. I understand the political and ideological reasons why people follow the rules or don't. I completely agree that the news spread to America has been a clusterf**k. My problem, which I've said here multiple times before, is that people don't seem to know that the rules have been made. It doesn't matter what you believe, what you think they should be, or whether they are even helpful. The rules are made and they say that if we get to "X", we shut down. And if people keep ignoring any safety precautions (which they stubbornly are), then we WILL get to "X". So while everyone ignored the recommendations and spent Christmas with their families, had NYE parties with their friends, etc., the virus spread and got worse than its ever been, hospital capacities are higher than ever before, infection increase rates are higher than they've been. So things are shutting down again. Is that because governors and mayors hate the economy and their constituents and are making up rules on the fly? No, it's because the rules were made and are in place, and by ignoring safety measures, people drove the numbers back to those made-last-summer benchmarks. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

I once made the comparison to when your little kid is breaking a rule and you say "stop or I'll take away your favorite toy" and they keep doing it and you warn them again and they keep doing it so you take their toy and they LOSE THEIR MINDS because it's so unfair and they can't believe how unfair it is and are stunned you won't relent on the rule. "Don't complain to me dumb*ss, you knew the rules and ignored them so now you get the consequences." Don't ask the parent to change the rules to make an exception for your stupidity.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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PeteRasche wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:44 am I once made the comparison to when your little kid is breaking a rule and you say "stop or I'll take away your favorite toy" and they keep doing it and you warn them again and they keep doing it so you take their toy and they LOSE THEIR MINDS because it's so unfair and they can't believe how unfair it is and are stunned you won't relent on the rule. "Don't complain to me dumb*ss, you knew the rules and ignored them so now you get the consequences." Don't ask the parent to change the rules to make an exception for your stupidity.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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TUPF wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 am
Folks with my background are experienced with "embracing the suck" when it behooves one to make small sacrifices for the common good whether or not it personally benefits. I have very little patience with the non-mask wearing, quibbling with social distancing measuring stick, folks. If they get sick they get sick. As my mom used to say, don't come crying to me when it happens.
The problem isn't when those idiots get sick, it's that those idiots spread it to others. I can also make a long list of things I'd feel comfortable doing outside if I didn't think know I was surrounded by said idiots, making things more dangerous. It stopped being funny a long time ago, and the idiots who quibble about such things are negatively impacting me (and many, many others) on a daily basis, not to mention KILLING others (in comparison, I get the good end of the stick)
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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WaveProf wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:09 pm
TUPF wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:02 am
Folks with my background are experienced with "embracing the suck" when it behooves one to make small sacrifices for the common good whether or not it personally benefits. I have very little patience with the non-mask wearing, quibbling with social distancing measuring stick, folks. If they get sick they get sick. As my mom used to say, don't come crying to me when it happens.
The problem isn't when those idiots get sick, it's that those idiots spread it to others. I can also make a long list of things I'd feel comfortable doing outside if I didn't think know I was surrounded by said idiots, making things more dangerous. It stopped being funny a long time ago, and the idiots who quibble about such things are negatively impacting me (and many, many others) on a daily basis, not to mention KILLING others (in comparison, I get the good end of the stick)
You are 100% correct. But what are ya gonna do? You control what you can control. Just hope you don't need to go to an emergency room with a different problem and die in the waiting room.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Being reported that in the first 5 million vaccine doses only 29 allergic reactions. I believe all of those were caught early and treated. That's a very, very low rate and and enduring sign that the vaccines out there are safe. Obviously if you have had past reactions to vaccines make up your own mind, but to the Gen pop this should say, get your shot when you can.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:22 am Being reported that in the first 5 million vaccine doses only 29 allergic reactions. I believe all of those were caught early and treated. That's a very, very low rate and and enduring sign that the vaccines out there are safe. Obviously if you have had past reactions to vaccines make up your own mind, but to the Gen pop this should say, get your shot when you can.
But what about on January 21 when the new leader pushes the magic button and the vaccine is activated and everyone who took it becomes a tree-hugging socialist automaton? Must be true, I read it on the internet! :lol: :lol:
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I'm confused. I thought it was they die on January 21st?
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Disclaimer for the easily offended: these are not political jokes, they are jokes about the silly stuff that people actually believe because they saw it online.

The fact that people have been getting vaccines for a multitude of things for decades (measles, mumps, rubella, annual flu, etc.) but "this one is evil" because of the political climate is just maddening. Yes it's new technology but so were all the other ones when they were created. And the rush to market (compared to other medications) has been explained thoroughly by the medical community (not the appointed sycophant of the week with the microphone but the heads of major medical groups in medical journals) who have maintained political neutrality despite pressures from politicians.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:22 am Being reported that in the first 5 million vaccine doses only 29 allergic reactions. I believe all of those were caught early and treated. That's a very, very low rate and and enduring sign that the vaccines out there are safe. Obviously if you have had past reactions to vaccines make up your own mind, but to the Gen pop this should say, get your shot when you can.
Excellent. Much better than I had hoped. I've already contacted my GP about getting the vaccine in the hospital and he says we are good to go once it's released to non-essentials like me.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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PeteRasche wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:16 am
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:22 am Being reported that in the first 5 million vaccine doses only 29 allergic reactions. I believe all of those were caught early and treated. That's a very, very low rate and and enduring sign that the vaccines out there are safe. Obviously if you have had past reactions to vaccines make up your own mind, but to the Gen pop this should say, get your shot when you can.
But what about on January 21 when the new leader pushes the magic button and the vaccine is activated and everyone who took it becomes a tree-hugging socialist automaton? Must be true, I read it on the internet! :lol: :lol:
I don't know what you're talking about cuz the virus went away on November 4th.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Our County of 90,000 people had only 750 available vaccines this first week and will have only 1,500 next week. They open the phone lines for appointments at 10:00 am, and by 10:10, all of the appointments are filled.
It's worse than a radio call-in back in the day!
They say that the problem is not with access to the vaccine, but with qualified personnel to administer it; seems puzzling to me.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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My wife and I got through on the "ticket" line on the internet to get our reservations for next week's vaccine. I give credit to my daughter who showed me how to do it and got me all set up to give us the best chance of getting through. She says she learned how to do this from scoring concert tickets when she was younger. The county did use a private ticket service to distribute the appointments, so it worked pretty well. Last week, they tried to do it themselves and it was a disaster...jammed phone lines, etc.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Cheerleader wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:11 pm... She says she learned how to do this from scoring concert tickets when she was younger. ...
Yep, our County Attorney advised me to pre-dial the phone number, except the last digit, then press that final number on the second of 10:00. That's what we used to do back in the day, when calling the radio station to try to win a copy of the "Pick Hit of the Week."
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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The funny thing is there were numerous reports all through this past fall, after the vaccines went into final trial stages, about how difficult the distribution would be, how understaffed the medical community would be to give shots, how difficult it would be to keep track of everything, etc. Basically said it would be a long, slow rollout and herd immunity would be a loooong ways away. Nobody really paid those stories much attention because everyone was busy either praising the hope, poo-pooing the idea of getting a vaccine, doubting that they were even needed, or whatever spin du jour was convenient. And now pretty much all those predictions are coming true and everyone's like "What? How can this be?"
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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I think that the biggest reason that the rollout has been so bad is pure politics, plus a lack of experience. To my knowledge the last two instances of a major vaccination effort were for smallpox and the oral polio virus.

Very few people born after me can show off the small tattoo denoting a smallpox vaccine. they were using a small airgun-like apparatus leaving a 1-1.5 cm circle on the arm. the routine administration of smallpox vaccine administration ended about 1972; to be honest, there were some Drs that stopped giving it earlier than that since the last outbreak in the U.S was in the late 1940's. I remember interviewing for a grad school position in Immunology, and noticing a WHO poster offering a 10K reward for a case of smallpox; it was deemed eradicated in 1980.

The last big vaccination program was early 1960's for polio. The Sabin (oral) vaccine was distributed by putting the vaccine on a sugar cube in a small paper cup. I remember lining up outside the entrance to my elementary school with my family to receive the vaccine. I can all but guarantee that none of the bureaucrats involved in its distribution are still around working today.

Here in East Tennessee we have had a rather robust distribution of the vaccine; I get my second dose next Friday, and most of my staff has received it through this week. The county health depts in NE Tennessee have set up vaccination stations; my 88 year old mother got her first dose Tuesday after they ran out of their distribution on Monday. Sullivan County had a "drive-up" vaccination set up; roll down your window and stick your exposed arm out. Starting next week a vaccination distribution center will be in our civic auditorium.

I just read CDC information on anaphylaxis reactions related to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines; so far there are about 11.1 cases of anaphylaxis severe allergic reaction) per million doses administered. This is about 8 times more often than flu vaccines. I have heard that patients receiving the second dose might be more likely to have a reaction; if so, this number will probably rise as the second dose is given. When I, along with my wife and son (he helps some in the office and is special needs, so qualified to get it early as well) received the vaccine we had to sit and be observed for 15 minutes after receiving it for adverse effect. My wife had less discomfort than she did with flu shots; son has had no symptoms.

Sorry I was so long in this report; will continue to provide any information I can as I read it. I get medical information from at least 4=5 different sources each day, some useful, some not too helpful or interesting. Will share anything worthwhile as it comes across.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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We appreciate the updates, AO. Don't worry about being too long, it's good info.
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Re: COVID vaccine update

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Now I will make this at least somewhat sports-related.

The Sullivan County Health dept has set up a vaccination station on the Bristol Dragway, adjacent to the Bristol Motor Speedway (home of the most popular NASCAR race, according to fan polls). Just drive up, be part of one of the groups, and you get your shot.

The current designations that can get it are "1-a-1," which is healthcare workers who are exposed to patients, such as hospital ward, ER, ambulance people, "1-a-2" which is people working in primary care offices, outpatient specialty groups (like my office), nursing home employees, and people over the age of 75. At first they tried to do reservations; however, they received 70,000 calls when they opened up Monday, and now the community ones don't require reservations.

They just put out that the lines at the Bristol dragstip today are short (probably due to the snow we received this morning- everything in East Tennessee is paralyzed by 3 snowflakes, all the bread and milk is sold out of groceries); so if you are in the neighborhood and fit the criteria and want to get your first dose, come on by.
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