MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

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PeteRasche
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by PeteRasche »

ml wave wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:40 amPete, any insight on changing offenses/philosophy midway through a season?
Nothing you can't already surmise. Let's just say I can't imagine it ever being a good thing (except for, I dunno, a situation where a team gets a game-changing player back from an injury, suspension, transfer, whatever, and adjusts to include that player).
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by ml wave »

PeteRasche wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:32 pm
ml wave wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:40 amPete, any insight on changing offenses/philosophy midway through a season?
Nothing you can't already surmise. Let's just say I can't imagine it ever being a good thing (except for, I dunno, a situation where a team gets a game-changing player back from an injury, suspension, transfer, whatever, and adjusts to include that player).
Thanks
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

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wavedom wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pm A lot less than 13. That offense didn't work last year. It clearly didn't this year. He failed on that end. He's finally seen the light and will hopefully keep on it. After this season he needs to bring in an offensive minded assistant.
THis team is 100% different from last year's team.
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by wavedom »

Marathon Wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pm A lot less than 13. That offense didn't work last year. It clearly didn't this year. He failed on that end. He's finally seen the light and will hopefully keep on it. After this season he needs to bring in an offensive minded assistant.
THis team is 100% different from last year's team.
Not 100% but close. But as I've made clear it doesn't matter that the team has a lot of new players. it's just a bad offense that hasn't worked here under previous coaching staffs and won't work under this one or any other for that matter.
We still aren't there!
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by ml wave »

wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 pm
Marathon Wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pm A lot less than 13. That offense didn't work last year. It clearly didn't this year. He failed on that end. He's finally seen the light and will hopefully keep on it. After this season he needs to bring in an offensive minded assistant.
THis team is 100% different from last year's team.
Not 100% but close. But as I've made clear it doesn't matter that the team has a lot of new players. it's just a bad offense that hasn't worked here under previous coaching staffs and won't work under this one or any other for that matter.
I doubt Hunter considers his offense the same as whatever previous coaching staffs were running. He probably has no idea what offense previous coaching staffs were running.
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

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Never said he did. I just said we know it doesn't work from seeing it before .Also as I said it doesn't work anywhere. He failed on this issue and it's ok to acknowledge that. Glad he's seen the light and hope he stays with it and more importantly that he adds an offensive coach to his staff to take it over.
We still aren't there!
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PeteRasche
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by PeteRasche »

ml wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:11 pm
wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 pm
Marathon Wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pm A lot less than 13. That offense didn't work last year. It clearly didn't this year. He failed on that end. He's finally seen the light and will hopefully keep on it. After this season he needs to bring in an offensive minded assistant.
THis team is 100% different from last year's team.
Not 100% but close. But as I've made clear it doesn't matter that the team has a lot of new players. it's just a bad offense that hasn't worked here under previous coaching staffs and won't work under this one or any other for that matter.
I doubt Hunter considers his offense the same as whatever previous coaching staffs were running. He probably has no idea what offense previous coaching staffs were running.
To be fair, Hunter surely didn't intend his offense to be "hurriedly jack a three after one pass even if you are guarded closely", just as Conroy didn't intend his offense to be "pass it around the perimeter until the shot clock winds down then jack a three". The problem is when players are taking the easy/lazy way out, which both of those are. The cause can be the players themselves, the coaching (lack of practice/cohesion, or lack of discipline), plain old player fatigue (most common reason), or a combination of these. I can postulate on what the problems were under Conroy and last year under Hunter, but I can't say what caused it this year. Might have been simple lack of practice/cohesion because that's one of the possible causes that would be in-season fixable and it appears Hunter may have fixed it.
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by wavedom »

Conroy clearly intended it since it was the same every year. Hunter clearly was ok with it as it went on for a season and a half. The team had its full complement of practices. Thank goodness he's shown more sense than Conroy and has recognized it won't work.
We still aren't there!
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by Marathon Wave »

PeteRasche wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:57 pm
ml wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:11 pm
wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 pm
Marathon Wave wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 pm
wavedom wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:20 pm A lot less than 13. That offense didn't work last year. It clearly didn't this year. He failed on that end. He's finally seen the light and will hopefully keep on it. After this season he needs to bring in an offensive minded assistant.
THis team is 100% different from last year's team.
Not 100% but close. But as I've made clear it doesn't matter that the team has a lot of new players. it's just a bad offense that hasn't worked here under previous coaching staffs and won't work under this one or any other for that matter.
I doubt Hunter considers his offense the same as whatever previous coaching staffs were running. He probably has no idea what offense previous coaching staffs were running.
To be fair, Hunter surely didn't intend his offense to be "hurriedly jack a three after one pass even if you are guarded closely", just as Conroy didn't intend his offense to be "pass it around the perimeter until the shot clock winds down then jack a three". The problem is when players are taking the easy/lazy way out, which both of those are. The cause can be the players themselves, the coaching (lack of practice/cohesion, or lack of discipline), plain old player fatigue (most common reason), or a combination of these. I can postulate on what the problems were under Conroy and last year under Hunter, but I can't say what caused it this year. Might have been simple lack of practice/cohesion because that's one of the possible causes that would be in-season fixable and it appears Hunter may have fixed it.
I agree, but, (almost all) new players. Almost all young. Trying hard to learn difficult defense. Maybe just not thinking when on offense. It does look like Hunter's got their attention and has addressed the issue.
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by GretnaGrn »

wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 pm Conroy clearly intended it since it was the same every year. Hunter clearly was ok with it as it went on for a season and a half. The team had its full complement of practices. Thank goodness he's shown more sense than Conroy and has recognized it won't work.
This is factually untrue, due to the COVID issues within the program. Furthermore, some practices had the team but assistants only while Coach Hunter recovered from his personal COVID fight. With essentially a new team this year and very limited time together (and an abbreviated OOC schedule, let's not forget) it's just not valid to say this was a regular season in terms of practice time or time playing together. Given Coach Hunter's philosophy and mindset, I am also sure that his first priority in this limited time was to get his defense installed--which has been successful. I would much rather the offensive issues had been recognized and fixed sooner, but I can understand why it took longer than usual, and I commend Coach for eventually making the adjustment.
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PeteRasche
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by PeteRasche »

wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 pm Conroy clearly intended it since it was the same every year. Hunter clearly was ok with it as it went on for a season and a half. The team had its full complement of practices. Thank goodness he's shown more sense than Conroy and has recognized it won't work.
As Gretna said above, I don't think we had a fully staffed set of practices. Everything I've read has indicated it's been hodge-podge for much of the year.

I dunno about Conroy... I think he wanted guys to cut and move but just didn't have the talent to do it successfully. I can't believe a D1 coach had only one offensive plan and it was to have guys stand around the outside. He just couldn't come up with anything better with the players he recruited.

Last year Hunter's offense wasn't bad the first half of the year. It turned into what we're describing shortly after we upset Cincinnati in early January, when some combination of fatigue and something else hit. I still believe the "something else" was something said to the 5th year guys and they just said "screw this" and sleepwalked through the rest of the year. The change in motivation somewhere in mid-January was palpable.

This year is basically a new team, as has been mentioned, and our practices have been spotty. Putting in a college offense and getting it working smoothly takes time. That said, if all it took was telling guys "X passes before anyone shoots", then yeah, that could and should have been done much longer ago.
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by wavedom »

GretnaGrn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:05 pm
wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 pm Conroy clearly intended it since it was the same every year. Hunter clearly was ok with it as it went on for a season and a half. The team had its full complement of practices. Thank goodness he's shown more sense than Conroy and has recognized it won't work.
This is factually untrue, due to the COVID issues within the program. Furthermore, some practices had the team but assistants only while Coach Hunter recovered from his personal COVID fight. With essentially a new team this year and very limited time together (and an abbreviated OOC schedule, let's not forget) it's just not valid to say this was a regular season in terms of practice time or time playing together. Given Coach Hunter's philosophy and mindset, I am also sure that his first priority in this limited time was to get his defense installed--which has been successful. I would much rather the offensive issues had been recognized and fixed sooner, but I can understand why it took longer than usual, and I commend Coach for eventually making the adjustment.
That's false. They had the usual number of preseason practices and the ones Hunter missed were midway through the season. As to him being a defensive minded coach that doesn't justify ignoring the offense. It's embarrassing that I have to even say that. It's why you have a staff. As I said earlier if wants to have success at this level he needs to bring in a coach to run the offense.
We still aren't there!
wavedom
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Re: MBB at Tulsa, WBB hosts Tulsa

Post by wavedom »

PeteRasche wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:15 pm
wavedom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 pm Conroy clearly intended it since it was the same every year. Hunter clearly was ok with it as it went on for a season and a half. The team had its full complement of practices. Thank goodness he's shown more sense than Conroy and has recognized it won't work.
As Gretna said above, I don't think we had a fully staffed set of practices. Everything I've read has indicated it's been hodge-podge for much of the year.

I dunno about Conroy... I think he wanted guys to cut and move but just didn't have the talent to do it successfully. I can't believe a D1 coach had only one offensive plan and it was to have guys stand around the outside. He just couldn't come up with anything better with the players he recruited.

Last year Hunter's offense wasn't bad the first half of the year. It turned into what we're describing shortly after we upset Cincinnati in early January, when some combination of fatigue and something else hit. I still believe the "something else" was something said to the 5th year guys and they just said "screw this" and sleepwalked through the rest of the year. The change in motivation somewhere in mid-January was palpable.

This year is basically a new team, as has been mentioned, and our practices have been spotty. Putting in a college offense and getting it working smoothly takes time. That said, if all it took was telling guys "X passes before anyone shoots", then yeah, that could and should have been done much longer ago.
All accounts locally about preseason practices were that things were normal. There's simply no excuse to run what we ran for a season and a half. He owned up to it and we can only hope he addresses it with a staff addition that can coach that side of the ball.
We still aren't there!
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