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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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I get it that folks hate HOAs because they are seen as draconian but again, RTF documents and talk to neighbors BEFORE you buy.

And having been on a condo board, I can tell you that every one of those inane rules are there because some @hole went overboard in the past. No plastic playhouses in the backyard? Probably because someone constructed some giant monstrosity which became an attractive nuisance and left it there even when Brendan went off to college. It's a lot easier to say no playhouses than trying to arbitrate after the fact. Stupid trash can rules? Some folks probably used the curbs for permanent trash can storage, including that old couch the trash company refuses to haul away. No fences? Because someone constructed the Green Monster in their backyard. A prescribed mailbox? Because folks took "creativity" to ridiculous extremes. If any of these stick in your craw, don't buy there. It's like buying a house near an airport and b!tching about planes flying overhead.

My home does not have an HOA but deed restrictions include no property fences (to preserve an open look), and no detached sheds. People just have storage built into their garages. I knew it going in and am OK with it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:41 pm 
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There was a case, in a friend's neighborhood, where the covenants required that all backyar swingsets had to be painted in "earth-tone colors." One guy bought one of those "standard" swingsets for his kids from Sears--you know, the ones that come in red/green two-tone. His ARB insisted that he paint it brown, which to me is totally unreasonable, especially it was hidden behind an allowed privacy fence.

In another friend's neighborhood, "non-wooden" fences were prohibited. One family installed a fence made out of synthetics that were molded with a wood-grain pattern and painted white. I looked at it up close and really could not tell, until I touched it, that it was not wood. The HOA put a lien on his house, so he sued, claiming that they had negatively impacted the sale of his house. HE WON the lawsuit, and it ended up costing each of the 16 owners in the HOA about $5,000 in assessment (for less than one homeowner's share, they could have replaced the fence with one that was acceptable). Even those who did not object to the fence (4 out 16).

So for people who are too wimpy to broach the subject with an egregious neighbor, or when you get an absolute a-hole who will not show some common courtesy, HOAs might be OK, but I'm absolutely opposed to them. Mostly because the Boards often have the ability to impose restrictions and levy charges with little or no input from the members.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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And that's why I am sure you built your dream house in Florida in an area without an HOA, Roller!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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Our neighborhood HOA does a really good job of making sure there is input on any potentially-controversial issues and they also do a pretty good job of keeping bylaws updated over the years as thing change. For example, there was a restriction on satellite dishes (where they were located) which was written in the era when the dishes were the old 6-foot diameter monstrosities. They just took that out since today's dishes are fairly inconspicuous and everyone is accustomed to seeing them anyway.

There was an interesting situation that occurred a couple of years though, because the bylaws actually have restrictions on the color you can paint your house (siding, shutters, etc.). The original bylaw had no restriction if you painted it the same color it was originally ("freshened it up"). The problem was that the colors in vogue when the neighborhood was built are not attractive these days. So one of the houses at the "main" intersection of the neighborhood, right across the street staring at you when you come into the neighborhood and stop at that stop sign, was a colonial type with blue shutters. They were very faded, and not attractive. The house went on the market when the economy tanked in the late 00s, and was passed around to various banks a while, and at one point was being rented. or temporarily held or something. Anyway, those people painted them this really bad electric blue - it didn't match the style of architecture, it stuck out like a sore thumb.. it was UGLY. All the neighbors were up in arms because it looked so bad and so out of place, especially because it was in a location that EVERYONE saw... but the HOA board discovered, lo and behold, it was the original color, just a fresh coat (after ~20 years of having been sun-faded). So there was nothing they could do about it.

Luckily, the house was still on the market (or quickly back on the market, I don't know the backstory) and a family bought it who immediately had it repainted to a nice looking classic color scheme. And to this day, when people introduce them, they are "the people in the blue shutter house", and everyone who hears that goes "ohhhhh.... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for painting it a normal color, it looks so nice!". That family inadvertently became quasi-heroes in the neighborhood just by virtue of painting their house a decent color scheme.

And as soon as that house changed colors, the HOA modified the old bylaws...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:32 am 
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Emerald Circle
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If I own a house fee simple and want to paint it sky blue and olive green I should be allowed to do so.

Do you know who else liked HOAs? .....




Scott Cowen


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:45 am 
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Emerald Circle
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windywave wrote:
If I own a house fee simple and want to paint it sky blue and olive green I should be allowed to do so.

That sounds great until your neighbor paints his house a color scheme that literally causes your house to lose value.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:50 am 
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Emerald Circle
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PeteRasche wrote:
windywave wrote:
If I own a house fee simple and want to paint it sky blue and olive green I should be allowed to do so.

That sounds great until your neighbor paints his house a color scheme that literally causes your house to lose value.


Yeah that doesn't happen. Seriously would you pass on buying a house because a neighboring house is purple? The only people who complain about their house losing value are the people who don't like the color and have no further argument.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:51 am 
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windywave wrote:
sr wrote:
windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
TUPF wrote:
I don't have a degree in urban planning but have bought and sold a bunch of homes in many different locales in rural, suburban and major city locations, I think it follows a predictable pattern. Landlocked cities such as San Francisco run out of real estate space and prices are driven up into nosebleed region as long as it is a desirable place for some folks. When a city has a lot of room to expand and it is not hemmed in by natural barriers, it keeps spreading out in concentric circles to sometimes ridiculous distances (think people living in Fredericksburg, VA and commuting to DC). Eventually, like an expanding supernova, it reaches an unsustainable distance, people get fed up with the commutes even though houses are cheap, and either establish exurbs of their own right, or return to the city, especially as empty nesters. It's always a tradoff between bang for the buck and where people have to make a living. We all have seen ridiculously gorgeous homes and property but out in the middle of nowhere such that it only works if you are already wealthy or don't have to make big salaries.

So, the real estate axiom is true: what's the right price?...whatever a willing buyer is willing to pay. I would pay $300k for a nice 1 BR Philadelphia condo that for the same price would buy a near mansion in rural Texas or the scrubby interior of Florida...not that I would ever want to live in either place. :wink:

So,...supply and demand?


And zoning restrictions

What restrictions ?? Houston doesn't believe in them.


San Francisco and most other big cities do leading to an artificial supression of available affordable housing

So,...supply and demand?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:50 am 
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Emerald Circle
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Location: Philadelphia, PA & Berlin, MD
windywave wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
windywave wrote:
If I own a house fee simple and want to paint it sky blue and olive green I should be allowed to do so.

That sounds great until your neighbor paints his house a color scheme that literally causes your house to lose value.


Yeah that doesn't happen. Seriously would you pass on buying a house because a neighboring house is purple? The only people who complain about their house losing value are the people who don't like the color and have no further argument.

While trying to decide whether I want to go outside and attempt not to fry my eyeballs because I didn't buy eclipse protection....

Yes, I would pass. What I've learned from building, buying and selling seven houses and one condo over the course of a nomadic career is to only purchase a home thinking that if I had to sell it the following month, there would be zero negatives. Sure, it only takes one person to buy your house but the pool of potential buyers shrinks for every neighborhood junked car, teenager half-pipe, fuschia bungalow, overgrown lot.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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TUPF wrote:
windywave wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
windywave wrote:
If I own a house fee simple and want to paint it sky blue and olive green I should be allowed to do so.

That sounds great until your neighbor paints his house a color scheme that literally causes your house to lose value.


Yeah that doesn't happen. Seriously would you pass on buying a house because a neighboring house is purple? The only people who complain about their house losing value are the people who don't like the color and have no further argument.

While trying to decide whether I want to go outside and attempt not to fry my eyeballs because I didn't buy eclipse protection....

Yes, I would pass. What I've learned from building, buying and selling seven houses and one condo over the course of a nomadic career is to only purchase a home thinking that if I had to sell it the following month, there would be zero negatives. Sure, it only takes one person to buy your house but the pool of potential buyers shrinks for every neighborhood junked car, teenager half-pipe, fuschia bungalow, overgrown lot.


junk cars and overvrown lots are ordinance violations and a half pipe is a zone violation. I do not have experience with HOAs other than derivatively but the make appears to be the same of the condo boards in buildings I've lived in ... retired busy bodies who actually reduce the value of the properites by being shortsighted dill weeds. I mean who wants a gym in thwir building when they can have a party room straight out of the 70s (when they died off the new members put in a gym and shocking I know condos startes trading at higher prices with less time on the market).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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Location: Philadelphia, PA & Berlin, MD
windywave wrote:
junk cars and overvrown lots are ordinance violations and a half pipe is a zone violation.

Yes they are. Try to get your municipality to do something about it. I tried for three years in my first house and failed. I had a very hard time selling that house, so much so that my company mercifully bought it from me back in the 1980s. They seldom do that anymore.

Look, I get that rules are evil to some folks. I've personally seen why Lord Vader HOAs are necessary for those 5% of @holes who don't give a cr@p what anyone else thinks.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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TUPF wrote:
windywave wrote:
junk cars and overvrown lots are ordinance violations and a half pipe is a zone violation.

Yes they are. Try to get your municipality to do something about it. I tried for three years in my first house and failed. I had a very hard time selling that house, so much so that my company mercifully bought it from me back in the 1980s. They seldom do that anymore.

Look, I get that rules are evil to some folks. I've personally seen why Lord Vader HOAs are necessary for those 5% of @holes who don't give a cr@p what anyone else thinks.


You lived in a crappy town. I'm not being facetious. I have not lived nor plan to live where the city is that unresponsive. I understand your position but at least admit your naval career perhaps influences you to really like rules :coolshades: and being retired means you're prime board material :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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windywave wrote:
TUPF wrote:
windywave wrote:
junk cars and overvrown lots are ordinance violations and a half pipe is a zone violation.

Yes they are. Try to get your municipality to do something about it. I tried for three years in my first house and failed. I had a very hard time selling that house, so much so that my company mercifully bought it from me back in the 1980s. They seldom do that anymore.

Look, I get that rules are evil to some folks. I've personally seen why Lord Vader HOAs are necessary for those 5% of @holes who don't give a cr@p what anyone else thinks.


You lived in a crappy town. I'm not being facetious. I have not lived nor plan to live where the city is that unresponsive. I understand your position but at least admit your naval career perhaps influences you to really like rules :coolshades: and being retired means you're prime board material :wink:

Or maybe, just maybe, windy is in the 5%.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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well I live in a neighborhood that was developed in the 30's to have a unique look, that day's version of an Utopian Community. When you buy here you get a very detailed list of building Restrictions/Covenants which were designed to preserve the original planning. We seem to have gone through various stages, early on everyone bought into the original planning, then in the 70's things slipped a bit only to snap back in the 80's and 90's but now...........the very unique, and hard to duplicate today, design of the original planning has raised property values through the roof. Which makes it hard for the middle and lower end buyers part of the original planning to buy here. The ones moving in have much more money and they, almost uniformly, want to ignore the building covenants or find a way around them. Slowly destroying the very thing that caused property values to rise so high. Building 3 story McMansions on tiny lots, 8' high fences (more like fortress walls) bringing with them fleets of expensive SUV's to a neighborhood built around the quaint 30's-40's notion that everyone had only one car.

its been a fascinating window into human nature.

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How bitter it is, the story of routine- Arabic (Anon)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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PeteRasche wrote:
windywave wrote:
TUPF wrote:
windywave wrote:
junk cars and overvrown lots are ordinance violations and a half pipe is a zone violation.

Yes they are. Try to get your municipality to do something about it. I tried for three years in my first house and failed. I had a very hard time selling that house, so much so that my company mercifully bought it from me back in the 1980s. They seldom do that anymore.

Look, I get that rules are evil to some folks. I've personally seen why Lord Vader HOAs are necessary for those 5% of @holes who don't give a cr@p what anyone else thinks.


You lived in a crappy town. I'm not being facetious. I have not lived nor plan to live where the city is that unresponsive. I understand your position but at least admit your naval career perhaps influences you to really like rules :coolshades: and being retired means you're prime board material :wink:

Or maybe, just maybe, windy is in the 5%.


:angel:

I actually don't mind broad restrictions like square footage lot size ratios but the ticky tack stuff I would go to mattresses over.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Emerald Circle
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windywave wrote:
... but the ticky tack stuff I would go to mattresses over.

And here, after all these years, windy neatly summarizes his whole forum posting modus operandi.


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