Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Discuss today what is happening on campus non-athletically; departments, non-athletic facilities, professors, recognitions and issues. No athletics allowed.
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doncecco
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by doncecco »

Can't we just stick to something more pleasant and positive, like the lack of pitching depth or the poor rebounding skills of men's hoops?


Sheesh.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Roller »

Baywave1 wrote:
Bham Wave wrote:
Also, wasn’t Tulane’s entire campus at one point a sugar plantation? Maybe I’m wrong but I seem to recall reading that somewhere.
True. The slope is being greased as we type......
The mind boggles.
How far are people willing to go? Should we burn down all of the ante-bellum homes and salt the earth where plantation crops once grew? I realize that New Orleans is at the epicenter of removing any artifact of slavery, but it's obscene and idiotic. We need to think in terms of current usage--not in terms of what happened at some distant time that most people do not relate to. I am personally convinced that the victory bell never once willingly participated in slave-driving.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by murphwave »

I say find a good spot for it with the historical context on a plaque for all to read and find a better bell that you can actually ring (and hear) for the victory bell. No reason we can't have a new bell given this one only arrived to Campus in the 1960s anyways. I still remember the big reveal in 1998 when Shawn King rang the bell and it made no sound at all...
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by MattK »

This may be blasphemy here, but I’ve never once heard the victory bell outside of mccallister rung.

If it got put there in 60, we moved to the dome in 75 for about 40 years. And if it has been a tradition to ring it after wins since returning to campus, I’ve got no idea when after games it happened.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Poseidon »

Speaking frankly and seriously. The letter mentioned how things like the bell "echo" to us from History. While there are a limited few things that actually do, like Lee Circle(which is another debate). Things like the bell and other things that originated long ago but have been repurposed over and over do not....unless people stirrup drama, fear, and anger in order to virtue signal on their own or further their career as a activist. The decision to quickly cave into these people does not make things right it just incentivizes and emboldens the oppurntistic activist to push harder and make a bigger problem about the next "problematic" thing unearned for their own gain, not Tulane's. Reopening these wounds and throwing salt on them is more destructive than good. I really don't care about the bell. I just think it's a foolish move to let people bully you about things like this. Next time they will come for somthing real and it will be ugly.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by PeteRasche »

So the bell was forged in 1825 but became the victory bell in the early 1960s... I wonder where it was in the period after slavery ended, before being repurposed. How did it get to be our victory bell, who had it, and what led to the decision to donate it for that purpose? I never read what was written on it but clearly it didn't give an obvious clue about its origin; I wonder if some historian saw some symbol from the forge or something "Antiques Roadshow" in an inconspicuous place and thought to look it up. I can't imagine someone just saw that bell and thought, "gee, a bell... that must have had nefarious origins."

I like the idea upthread about publicly melting it down and reforging a new one. Symbolic and practical.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Rotorooter »

PeteRasche wrote:I like the idea upthread about publicly melting it down and reforging a new one.
I like the idea of winning 20 games in MBB and going to the NCAAs; I like the idea of winning the AAC football title; I like the idea of being Top 25 universities in the country; I like the idea of winning the CWS. All of this other stuff is just noise from people who couldn't give two shiits about athletics at Tulane University and want their 15 minutes. It's all wasted energy, energy taken away from real, tangible goals that ARE important.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by WaveProf »

“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Johnny Mac »

windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
windywave wrote:I'm just curious who had the free time and desire to actually research the history of the bell
Historians?
Just seems like such a minor thing to research
I'm with you.. as if some SJW just went from icon to icon, building to building on campus to find something to biatch about
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Roller »

Poseidon wrote:Speaking frankly and seriously. The letter mentioned how things like the bell "echo" to us from History. While there are a limited few things that actually do, like Lee Circle(which is another debate). Things like the bell and other things that originated long ago but have been repurposed over and over do not....unless people stirrup drama, fear, and anger in order to virtue signal on their own or further their career as a activist. The decision to quickly cave into these people does not make things right it just incentivizes and emboldens the oppurntistic activist to push harder and make a bigger problem about the next "problematic" thing unearned for their own gain, not Tulane's. Reopening these wounds and throwing salt on them is more destructive than good. I really don't care about the bell. I just think it's a foolish move to let people bully you about things like this. Next time they will come for somthing real and it will be ugly.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Roller »

"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by gerryb323 »

Roller wrote:
"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
Direct movement of slaves/Ring time of day
Potato/Potato
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by gerryb323 »

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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Roller »

gerryb323 wrote:
Roller wrote:
"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
Direct movement of slaves/Ring time of day
Potato/Potato
I guess
Actually, ... NO.
If someone used a fishing rod to whip a slave, would that be cause for not fishing with that rod 150 years later? It's not about how to pronounce "potato"; it's about intended purpose versus employed purpose. If an object is used for some purpose other than that for which it was intended, that should be attributed to the user, not to the object.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by gerryb323 »

Roller wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Roller wrote:
"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
Direct movement of slaves/Ring time of day
Potato/Potato
I guess
Actually, ... NO.
If someone used a fishing rod to whip a slave, would that be cause for not fishing with that rod 150 years later? It's not about how to pronounce "potato"; it's about intended purpose versus employed purpose. If an object is used for some purpose other than that for which it was intended, that should be attributed to the user, not to the object.
I'm not trying to get into a semantic debate, but if you think a lunch bell's intended purpose was for something other than moving slaves to/from lunch and other "activities" I don't know what to tell you.
And I would imagine descendents of slaves would likely decline to use that fishing pole
Last edited by gerryb323 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by gerryb323 »

Roller wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Roller wrote:
"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
Direct movement of slaves/Ring time of day
Potato/Potato
I guess
Actually, ... NO.
If someone used a fishing rod to whip a slave, would that be cause for not fishing with that rod 150 years later? It's not about how to pronounce "potato"; it's about intended purpose versus employed purpose. If an object is used for some purpose other than that for which it was intended, that should be attributed to the user, not to the object.
And my point was that the way this release was worded was obviously to put it in the most negative light. Clearly the bell would have been rung to denote times of day. That could have been the stated purpose in this press release. It goes without saying that slaves would have no choice but to obey the bell. But stating it so bluntly obviously sharpens the message. There are different ways of saying the same thing. Potato, potato.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by PeteRasche »

Rotorooter wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:I like the idea upthread about publicly melting it down and reforging a new one.
I like the idea of winning 20 games in MBB and going to the NCAAs; I like the idea of winning the AAC football title; I like the idea of being Top 25 universities in the country; I like the idea of winning the CWS. All of this other stuff is just noise from people who couldn't give two shiits about athletics at Tulane University and want their 15 minutes. It's all wasted energy, energy taken away from real, tangible goals that ARE important.
Yep, because me throwing my 2 cents in here means I'm not worried about those other things. :razz:

I generally agree with you, BTW.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

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When they make us do jazz hands in lieu of clapping and cheering, I’m done.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by ml wave »

Roller wrote:
"...to direct the movements of enslaved people on a plantation."
Having never lived on a slave plantation, I cannot speak from experience, but I suspect that it had a much broader purpose than that.
It seems more likely to me that it was more akin to a "dinner bell," used to signal certain times of day--such as time to start work, time for breaks, time to knock off from work, time to wake up, etc. As such it would be used to signal the plantation owners, the overseers, guests, and anyone else who was in earshot. I would not have been "issuing orders," but rather, it would be coordinating the time-related activities of everybody.
Like many Americans, I have toured several ante-bellum plantations (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Oak Hill, Oak Alley, etc.), I recall seeing bells that were used "to call everyone to dinner," but I never heard one described as "...to issue directions to the slaves."
Attacking the bell and it's current owners is a gross over-reaction to an unpleasant period in history. I can only surmise that the true intent of raising the "issue" is to stir up discontent and animosity and to create divisiveness. It serves no logical purpose at this point in time.
I don't think the ringing of the bell to denote waking up, starting/ending work (to use your example) was just some sort of suggestion? That pretty clearly falls under the guise of "to direct movements of enslaved people". And time for breaks, lol...yeah, the slave union would be in an uproar if that didn't happen.

It'll never fail to amaze me why people get so bothered by these things. Who cares if Tulane removes the bell? Who is harmed by that? On the other hand, you've got FB, MBB, WBB teams that are majority African-American and you want to tell them hey sorry, we're keeping our plantation bell just cause?
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Rotorooter »

ml wave wrote:It'll never fail to amaze me why people get so bothered by these things. Who cares if Tulane removes the bell? Who is harmed by that? On the other hand, you've got FB, MBB, WBB teams that are majority African-American and you want to tell them hey sorry, we're keeping our plantation bell just cause?
And it never ceases to amaze me that people look for things like this, who would never know its origin unless they were looking for things to be aggrieved at in the first place. If they never looked it up, they would never know. The people who WERE truly aggrieved have long since turned to dust.

By extension, why would any African-American athlete ever come to the South? At what point does it stop? Answer: it doesn't.

The lust for attention (or virtual signaling) just becomes too great for far too many people. And my point is that there are much more important accomplishments to attain, or to focus our energy on, than these things that act as faux "triggers."
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by ml wave »

Rotorooter wrote:
ml wave wrote:It'll never fail to amaze me why people get so bothered by these things. Who cares if Tulane removes the bell? Who is harmed by that? On the other hand, you've got FB, MBB, WBB teams that are majority African-American and you want to tell them hey sorry, we're keeping our plantation bell just cause?
And it never ceases to amaze me that people look for things like this, who would never know its origin unless they were looking for things to be aggrieved at in the first place. If they never looked it up, they would never know. The people who WERE truly aggrieved have long since turned to dust.

By extension, why would any African-American athlete ever come to the South? At what point does it stop? Answer: it doesn't.

The lust for attention (or virtual signaling) just becomes too great for far too many people. And my point is that there are much more important accomplishments to attain, or to focus our energy on, than these things that act as faux "triggers."
Why do you assume that the motive in researching the bell was to find that it originated on a plantation? As opposed to someone simply curious about the origin, or someone researching the plantation itself and inadvertently finding the bell and connection to Tulane, or any of a million other possibilities?
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Cheerleader »

Because we know how the left thinks.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by OGSB »

And Here. We. Go.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by TUPF »

Cheerleader wrote:Because we know how the left thinks.
Knock this doody off.
Please.
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Re: Victory Bell Removed. Most likely permanent.

Post by Roller »

ml wave wrote:I don't think the ringing of the bell to denote waking up, starting/ending work (to use your example) was just some sort of suggestion? That pretty clearly falls under the guise of "to direct movements of enslaved people". And time for breaks, lol...yeah, the slave union would be in an uproar if that didn't happen.
No, I think the movements of the save were dictated by the overseers, not some coded bell "message." I think the bell was there to signal to the family and the employees that "lunch is on the table." Of course, that notification was understood by everyone on the plantation. But I strongly doubt that the intention was to tell the slaves in the cotton patch to go pick beets.
ml wave wrote:It'll never fail to amaze me why people get so bothered by these things. Who cares if Tulane removes the bell? Who is harmed by that? On the other hand, you've got FB, MBB, WBB teams that are majority African-American and you want to tell them hey sorry, we're keeping our plantation bell just cause?
That works both ways. It'll never fail to amaze me why people get so bothered by these things, either. Should we remove everything from all our museums; because every period in history is laced with atrocities, and all architectural artifacts are somehow connected to some kind of deplorable activity. The debate is absurd on both sides. I choose to side with those who react against those who initiate the conversation. We are merely asking why--why get so worked up over something that is irrelevant to your present circumstance and has no bearing on your life at this point? Why even create such a foolish conversation?
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