The Big 10 (11 or 12)...expansion

['03Greenie]

Pitt has expressed interest in the past and Penn State has blocked them at every turn. Maryland is an ACC school through and through. Not going anywhere.

Iowa State makes more sense since Iowa is in the Big 10 already.

But Joe Pa really wants a 12th team, I'm not sure Penn St. would block them now. In fact, I'm not so sure Penn St. every really was a force in keeping Pitt out of the Big 10. The Big 10 has sort of been ambivilent about expansion. Even when they added Penn State, it was primarily about ending the perception of the Big 2 and the Little 8. Back when they were considering getting to 12, they saw the benefits of the conference championship game but were not so enthralled that they were willing to take anyone. I believe it was always Notre Dame or nobody. Alvarez's statements make it seem that the Big 10 has finally backed off that stance. I think the biggest reason for the change is the ever expanding time between the last Big 10 games and the BCS championship game. The coaches don't like it and see a conference championship game as a way to even the field.

Outside of ND, Pitt is really the best choice. They get into a better football conference and out of a huge all sports conference. Missouri and Iowa St. would really be the only other candidates. Missouri would essentially swap it's early season rivalry (Illinois) for it's end of season rivalry (Kansas). Iowa St. would get to join the conference of its only real rival. But who knows if they have any interest in leaving their traditional conference.

One interesting question, how would the Big 10 break down into two divisions? Michigan and Ohio State would play every year, so it's hard to imagine them not being in the same division. Plus, it's hard to imagine Penn St. skipping over them to play in a division with the western schools. Unless Notre Dame is added, it looks like it will be a mirror of the Big 12 South/North situation, only on a perpetual basis.

[FW]

Because Penn State doesn't want anything to do with Pitt. They've played like 100 times but PSU ended the annual series about 10-15 years ago. They feel they are "THE" school in Pennsylvania and don't want to do anything that might help elevate Pitt.

['03Greenie]

Because Penn State doesn't want anything to do with Pitt. They've played like 100 times but PSU ended the annual series about 10-15 years ago. They feel they are "THE" school in Pennsylvania and don't want to do anything that might help elevate Pitt.

You're right, there's tension between the schools, but you have the wrong basis. This article lays out what has always been the problem, a 30 year old grudge held by Joe Pa. http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/scott-t ... d_rev.html

The schools are pretty much equivalent, both are ranked approximately the same by the US news and world report, both are relatively recent members of BCS conferences, etc. While PSU has been better at football for the past 40 years, Pitt has been far better at basketball.

If Joe Pa wants a 12th member, I'm afraid he's going to have to swallow his pride and accept Pitt as the team that gets them a conference championship game. Plus, this would solve the other "problem" of why Pitt and Penn St. don't play every year. They could play and Penn State could still schedule four patsy home games every season.

[Ray]

Yeah FW, I kinda forgot about Iowa S tate Iowa has a pretty small population though, don't know about them. Of course they could always leap-frog Ames, Ia. & go for Nebraska. That's where Alvarez played.....guessing game for sure.

[washwave]

I believe that there has been some speculation that the 12th school for the Big 10 could be Rutgers. It is adjacent to Pa. and would bring the New York TV market that they would want. These things are all about money and Pitt, Iowa State etc. would get them any more since they are in markets that the Big 10 is already in. Notre Dame obviously has the national appeal that they would like, but if it's not them then a new market is probably something that they'd be looking for....

[MNAlum]

NJ is Penn State territory. Not sure Joa Pa would like Rutgers. If it were Iowa State, TCU would be back in the Big 12 in a heartbeat.

[Trifling Greenie]

I believe that there has been some speculation that the 12th school for the Big 10 could be Rutgers. It is adjacent to Pa. and would bring the New York TV market that they would want. These things are all about money and Pitt, Iowa State etc. would get them any more since they are in markets that the Big 10 is already in. Notre Dame obviously has the national appeal that they would like, but if it's not them then a new market is probably something that they'd be looking for....

Does Rutgers really bring the NY TV market? I don't think NYers really care about Rutgers football or basketball.

[Big EZ Wave]

Tulane needs to be ready to rock in this thing.

That's all.

[Wavebacker]

I believe that there has been some speculation that the 12th school for the Big 10 could be Rutgers. It is adjacent to Pa. and would bring the New York TV market that they would want. These things are all about money and Pitt, Iowa State etc. would get them any more since they are in markets that the Big 10 is already in. Notre Dame obviously has the national appeal that they would like, but if it's not them then a new market is probably something that they'd be looking for....

Does Rutgers really bring the NY TV market? I don't think NYers really care about Rutgers football or basketball.

Yes and No. Rutgers puts you in the NY area, region and technically does give you the market, but people in the NY market don't care or recognize RU enough to really make it THAT strong and valid a marketplace even though you really would have access to many more people, on paper to watch. It's kinda like how the NFL would love to put a team in Los Angeles because it's the 2nd largest city, but LA is fine not having an NFL team.

[Wavebacker]

Tulane to the ACC eventually. Y'all know that's been my plan for a while. It's the best fit, outside of the SEC. Now let's solidify our programs and facilities and get ready for the reshuffling.

I would think Vanderbilt to the ACC and Tulane to the SEC.

[bigmoneytx]

UPDATED WITH MORE NEWS TODAY - I guess it is "official" now

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4745381

The Big Ten Conference will explore the possibility of expansion in the next 12 to 18 months, according to a statement the league will release at 4 p.m. ET Tuesday

This could lead to a Domino effect

[Hannibal Heyes]

UPDATED WITH MORE NEWS TODAY - I guess it is "official" now

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4745381

The Big Ten Conference will explore the possibility of expansion in the next 12 to 18 months, according to a statement the league will release at 4 p.m. ET Tuesday

This could lead to a Domino effect

Unfortunately, any domino effect could only affect CUSA in a negative way, as it did in the last conference realignment. Tulane is not, and I suspect, will not be in a position to be attractive to a better conference. Too much work to be done in terms of facilities, fan support, football record, etc.

[Ray]

I'm still thinking Pitt or Mizzou(that is if they want to join The Big Ten).

[TUPF]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... ent-today/

[Hannibal Heyes]

Article about domino effect scenarios:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3085 ... tidal-wave

['03Greenie]

Article about domino effect scenarios:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3085 ... tidal-wave

I don't really see all the domino effect occurring. If the Big East loses a team (most likely Pitt) the league is devastated from a football perspective. BCS cred will not be saved by adding Memphis, East Carolina or UCF. Expanding to 12 teams would only heighten the effect. The Big East would really only have two possibilities, get Notre Dame to be a full time member for football or convince BC to come back to the Big East. I'd place my money on ND. ND would only have to sacrifice 7 games a year. They'd have 5 games to maintain their rivalries with USC, Army and Navy and then could rotate some of their pseudo rivarlies (Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, BC, Stanford, etc.) N.D. would also be in a position of bargaining power and could probably maintain the equivalence of their money from NBC.

The Pac 10 could expand and there might be a reshaping out west, but I can't see it having a huge domino effect. Only possibility would be if the Big 10 took missouri and the Big 12 tapped TCU, followed by the Pac 10 tapping Utah and BYU. then the MWC might be forced to fold/raid the WAC, etc.

The more interesting scenario, in my mind is what would happen if the Big 10 grabs Pitt, the Big East fails to get ND or BC, and they eventually lose their BCS AQ status. What happens to the system then? Would the Big East even survive?

[Hannibal Heyes]

Article about domino effect scenarios:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3085 ... tidal-wave

I don't really see all the domino effect occurring. If the Big East loses a team (most likely Pitt) the league is devastated from a football perspective. BCS cred will not be saved by adding Memphis, East Carolina or UCF. Expanding to 12 teams would only heighten the effect. The Big East would really only have two possibilities, get Notre Dame to be a full time member for football or convince BC to come back to the Big East. I'd place my money on ND. ND would only have to sacrifice 7 games a year. They'd have 5 games to maintain their rivalries with USC, Army and Navy and then could rotate some of their pseudo rivarlies (Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, BC, Stanford, etc.) N.D. would also be in a position of bargaining power and could probably maintain the equivalence of their money from NBC.

The Pac 10 could expand and there might be a reshaping out west, but I can't see it having a huge domino effect. Only possibility would be if the Big 10 took missouri and the Big 12 tapped TCU, followed by the Pac 10 tapping Utah and BYU. then the MWC might be forced to fold/raid the WAC, etc.

The more interesting scenario, in my mind is what would happen if the Big 10 grabs Pitt, the Big East fails to get ND or BC, and they eventually lose their BCS AQ status. What happens to the system then? Would the Big East even survive?

When the Big East added 3 teams from CUSA (Louisville, Cincy, and South Florida) a few years ago, it didn't affect their AQ status. Would it if they added 3 more CUSA teams? Hard to say.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that ND would be remotely interested in Big East football. They've turned down the Big 10 twice, so why would the Big East be attractive to them? It's about money and their TV contract with NBC, plus the Big East is at least one step down from the Big 10 as far as stature/perception is concerned.

Not sure why the Pac 10 would all of a sudden be interested in expanding to 12. What, just because the Big 10 is doing it, the Pac 10 would follow suit?

['03Greenie]

When the Big East added 3 teams from CUSA (Louisville, Cincy, and South Florida) a few years ago, it didn't affect their AQ status. Would it if they added 3 more CUSA teams? Hard to say.

Yeah, but they're sort of close now. West Va. is on its way down, post RichRod. Rutgers hasn't shown it can maintain its progress. Syracuse is a disaster. Who knows if Cincy will maintain their momentum post Kelly. Take away Pitt and add someone without any history and that conference begins to look even weaker than it is now, possibly weaker than the MWC. Would the rest of the BCS fight to protect that collection of schools in the Big East? I'm not so sure. I think they would need another school with some tradition to maintain AQ status.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that ND would be remotely interested in Big East football. They've turned down the Big 10 twice, so why would the Big East be attractive to them? It's about money and their TV contract with NBC, plus the Big East is at least one step down from the Big 10 as far as stature/perception is concerned.

The Big 10 was a slightly different situation. To belong to the Big 10 you have to join the CIC (I forget exactly what it stands for) which is essentially the academic equivalent of the athletic conference. To do this, Notre Dame would have had to change their academic focus from an undergraduate instution to a research center. ND balked at this, especially since they didn't feel they "Needed" the Big 10. The Big East offers a couple different positives. They're already a member. They probably could maintain huge revenues, either through a profit sharing agreement or possibly maintaining their home game on NBC deal. The Big East doesn't have a Mich., Ohio St. or Penn St. blocking access to the BCS. They might just be willing to take the plunge.

Edit: Forgot to add that when the Big 10 option was offered, there were only 11 game seasons. Meaning 3 non-conference games. Big East would allow them 5, thus a greater ability to maintain rivalries and play in different parts of the country.

Not sure why the Pac 10 would all of a sudden be interested in expanding to 12. What, just because the Big 10 is doing it, the Pac 10 would follow suit?

I'm not sure either, but it is definitely thrown around, actually more often than Big 10 expansion.

[GSx]

Tulane needs to be ready to rock in this thing.

That's all.

Indeed.
But is there reason to think that we will be?

[bigmoneytx]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4750901

The Big Ten's decision to study expansion brings back an oft-asked question -- would Notre Dame consider joining the conference, which includes a number of its regional football rivals?

The answer is no, athletic director Jack Swarbrick says, according to the Chicago Tribune.

['03Greenie]

Even the big 10 sites don't believe ND is actively being considered. They passed once, there's no reason to believe they won't pass again.

I still say it'll be Pitt. Though, the Missouri fansites seem extremely positive about the possibility and the Pres. has already gone on record that she'll consider the possibility, and "insider" information says that Rutgers is going to push hard to be the 12th team (for what it's worth, this comes from a blog that doesn't publish every rumor he is emailed, he makes a source prove his bonafides). I could see the extra money from rutgers bringing NJ into the Big 10 footprint as being a huge benefit. This would probably push the Big Ten Network onto the standard cable level, at least in northern and central NJ and would be a huge financial bonus.

Whoever it is, I think it's clear that this time around, if the Big 10 wants to expand, they'll be able to do so, ND's independent streak is not going to be a detriment.

[djh]

Tulane needs to be ready to rock in this thing.

That's all.

Indeed.
But is there reason to think that we will be?

No, none at all and that is the problem.

[BrettStah]

Rutgers does seem to make a lot of sense.

[Hannibal Heyes]

Tulane needs to be ready to rock in this thing.

That's all.

Indeed.
But is there reason to think that we will be?

No, none at all and that is the problem.

If we aren't, we could find ourselves in a conference with current Sunbelt teams and maybe worse. That's scary to me. Did you think the specter of that happening does anything at all to motivate our administration to do something?

[Ray]

Honestly ..... Right now we'd have our hands full in The Sunbelt conference in football & basketball. Except for baseball Tulane has to be considered a div.11(or whatever it's called) type program. A Southland conference type. No way are we typical of a Div 1 athletic program. Just look at our schedules compared to 10 or 15 yrs. ago. We still lose. It's like we will just do enough to be in a conference, even though it's doormat status. We have a long & winding road ahead just to be considered mediocre.