Big East could be 'in trouble'

[bigmoneytx]

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/ ... in-trouble

[Big EZ Wave]

If the Big 10 takes Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt, then ... you're left with 5 FB schools, 3 of them are ex-CUSA.

[long green]

I sent a PM to someone I know outlining that as a possibility. But I never posted it here. Dang.

It's the FU move for the B10. If this happened, I think the ACC might reach out to UConn and WVU. They should, anyway. If the B10 did this then yes, the BCS status of what was left of the BE would be in real jeopardy.

[Big EZ Wave]

LG, and that scenario leads to 14 team conferences ... meaning the Pac10, Big 12 and SEC may need to go in that direction too.

[PeteRasche]

Big 10 takes Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt. ACC takes WVU and UConn. MWC or WAC take UTEP, Tulsa, Houston, and SMU. The rest of CUSA joins up with the remaining Big East to create a new conference, very similar (at least on the football side) to the old CUSA. In a fit of egomaniacal rage, Louisville refuses to stay because it's not a BCS Conference and quits, and, overestimating its own power, tries in vain to get a TV contract like Notre Dame, but ends up as an independent.

Just thinkin' out loud.... :D

[long green]

LG, and that scenario leads to 14 team conferences ... meaning the Pac10, Big 12 and SEC may need to go in that direction too.

there's nothing that says that once one league goes to 14 teams, if one does, that anyone else will have to. Utah and BYU make a lot of sense for the Pac Ten if they want a 12 team league and a title game. No one else does unless Big Leagues start poaching other big leagues. That has never really happened. The SWC just dissolved rather than getting raided into non-existence. The Big East as a football league was a Big League in name only when it got raided. There isn't a precedent (yet) for a Big Healthy Rich conference getting raided.

I hope the Big Ten does do the bigger expansion. That will kill the Big East and put a newly committed Tulane in a better league. The schadenfreude potential as UL gets its just desserts is almost too delicious to contemplate.

Tulane needs to start thinking East again. Stop with this Texas stuff.

[Big EZ Wave]

As I'm sure you've read, the lure of the big stage with a football title game is the driving force for the Big 10. It makes total sense for them to lock up the Eastern TV market by taking Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt, driving the value of their Big 10 Network up even more. All 3 schools qualify for their high academic standards. The wild card could be Missouri.

The reason the Pac 10 expands has just been stated. A title game and the money and media exposure. Utah and Colorado make total sense for starters. Does anyone else move to 14? Not necessarily, but it could happen if it helps lock up media markets.

['03Greenie]

I've seen this idea floated out there, but I have a hard time believing this Big 10 to 14 teams idea is feasible. Lets just say that they were going to take Syracuse, Pitt and Rutgers. How do you split up the divisions? East and West would give you Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State or Purdue. The West would give you Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, and Michigan State or Purdue. One division becomes substantially more difficult while at the same time splitting at least one traditional rivalry. Maybe you could do a more equitable breakdown as North and South (N: Minnesota, wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Syracuse, Ohio State and Northwestern, S: Rutgers, Pitt, Penn State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa) but you're still breaking up some traditional rivalries. And these rivalries are really where the problems shine through. Each Big 10 team currently has two "protected" rivalry games that are played every year, with only one really being a fake rivalry in Michigan St./Penn St. If you split any of those rivalries up, you're going to end up needing to "protect" at least one of those games, but probably more since I can't imagine the East/West divide being ok'd. So, take your 8 conference games, subtract your six division games and your one protected game and it gives you one game a year against the other six opponents. Do you think Indiana is going to be happy with visits from Michigan or Ohio St. (and a guaranteed sell-out) occurring only once every 12 years? Could Michigan/Minnesota play twice every 12 years for the Little Brown Jug? In a conference that values tradition as much, if not more than any other (Rose Bowl anyone?), why would they throw their rivalries away for a few extra million a year.

I'm really surprised that everyone is missing the more relevant point of that article, namely that there's nobody for the Big East to add. That should put to bed the ridiculous notion that the Big East was going to add 4-5 C-USA schools. If the recently retired Big East commish. thinks that it's worthless to try and add some schools to stave off a full breakdown of the conference, it probably should force several fanbases to doubt any whispers that their programs are about to become big time thanks to the Big East.

[TPSTulane]

why would they throw their rivalries away for a few extra million a year.

Sad indeed. As we have seen with the LSU series (BR only for $$$). Unfortunately money trumps everything these days, sports being the worst.......

[long green]

they'll have to add somebody. Tranghese's statement says no one out there has any value. Well, the BE will be adding one of those valueless schools at least.

What's important is not what Tranghese said but who he represents. He's a Providence guy, a hoops guy. That side of the BE, and some of the football schools, have no interest in more CUSA schools. But the other side of the the BE, most of the football schools and all of the schools that have won the BE in football recently, know that they have to make some kind of move. If the hoops schools don't like it, they'll cut loose from them. The big story is that they just might cut loose from some of their football brethren who don't want to sully themselves with ECU, UCF, et al. I think the key is what Pitt decides. I also think that one of the things that hasn't come out is that the Big Ten has made its decision and it's Rutgers.

I don't buy the 14 thing either, to get right down to it. But you have to admit that the BE will have to invite somebody,

['03Greenie]

they'll have to add somebody. Tranghese's statement says no one out there has any value. Well, the BE will be adding one of those valueless schools at least.

What's important is not what Tranghese said but who he represents. He's a Providence guy, a hoops guy. That side of the BE, and some of the football schools, have no interest in more CUSA schools. But the other side of the the BE, most of the football schools and all of the schools that have won the BE in football recently, know that they have to make some kind of move. If the hoops schools don't like it, they'll cut loose from them. The big story is that they just might cut loose from some of their football brethren who don't want to sully themselves with ECU, UCF, et al. I think the key is what Pitt decides. I also think that one of the things that hasn't come out is that the Big Ten has made its decision and it's Rutgers.

I don't buy the 14 thing either, to get right down to it. But you have to admit that the BE will have to invite somebody,

Well sure, if they lose one school they HAVE to pick up somebody, though I'm not convinced that the Big East will ultimately be the conference that loses a school to the Big 10. I have no idea who that one school would be: potentially UCF?

I do think dismissing Tranghese as a basketball guy is a bit silly, would the Big East be a football conference without him?

[Pelican Power]

Again, I am telling you the Big 10 has the futuristic vision of "super conferences". A super conference is not 12 members. Notre Dame is beginning to tremble for a reason!

[green4life]

....and the Tulane Faculty Senate ensure that all athletics (and their income and exposure) are eliminated, and TU becomes Sewanee, except non-sectarian.

[The Who?]

The Big Ten's top choice is obviously Notre Dame, whom I don't think has been mentioned in this thread.

One of my sportswriter friends has said that he fully expects the Big East to be non-existent within two or three years. West Virginia football coach Bill Stewart has already said publicly that West Virginia could be in the SEC soon. I don't think anyone takes that seriously, but it shows that many, many people are taking it as an almost foregone conclusion that the Big East will be folding soon.

Someone mentioned Mike Traghese. Tranghese is no longer the Big East commissioner. He took some sort of consulting position with the University of Memphis.

Going off on a tangent, I think it would be a shame if the Big East folds. I think the current incarnation of the Big East is a very watchable product both in football and basketball. In football, it is certainly a step down from the tradition-rich BCS conferences, but it is very competitive within itself and produces a big upset from time to time. Also, in basketball, I think it's as fun as anything. The fans of the schools that leave will probably find that life in the "better" conference isn't as good. I've got to think that Boston College fans would rather be in the Big East, but what do I know?

[long green]

BC would not rather be in the BE. Whatever they sacrificed in removal from their traditional athletic context, they make up for in sheer cash. Heck, they can buy nostalgia if they find it lacking.

It is a shame that the BE may go away. The BE should be as it was, the ACC should be as it was. Nothing about college athletics has been improved by all of this "biggering" (as Dr. Seuss put it in The Lorax).

[The Who?]

I meant from a fan's perspective more than anything.

[Pelican Power]

The superconferencing is 1. about money and 2. about the eventuality of a college football playoff. The conferences are shopping for television markets and academic status (there not shopping just football programs) to improve their bottom line (this pleases both the tv folks and the college presidents). The big conferences also know the current system will NOT last forever...eventually the media, maybe congress and yes, the cry from the fans will make the schools create a playoff system which the majority of the country wants. So, there will be eventually be a final realignment between the haves with the superconferences and the have-nots. The superconferences with their 14 members (possibly as few as four of them) will break off and form their own classification.

I cannot tell you this IS going to happen, but that is how some are viewing the evolution of major college football. This does not look good for the Big East and even the Big 12.

[Ray]

I'd have to agree with last couple of posts. If it's "pragmatic" I think The Big Ten will be adding more than 1 school. The horse has left the barn on conference expansion. It seems arrogant, but in reality if the Big Ten only adds 1 team, then somebody else is going to gobble up those key markets/revenue. It won't happen over-night, but actually that might give Tulane some time to become a factor for another conference. Things can happen quickly & I hope we are quick!!

[PeteRasche]

FWIW, a co-worker is a die-hard Notre Dame fan and he says the inside word amongst the Irish fans is that they are starting to sway towards joining the Big Ten for football. They have always resisted (due to their NBC contract) but swirling rumors about the Big Ten expansion have made them (supposedly) change their tune.

He also mentioned what PP mentioned, that the "superconferences" (aka the current BCS teams) would break away from the NCAA and form their own new association, completely separate from the NCAA. While part of me thinks this could happen from a TV/money standpoint, another part of me thinks that too many of those teams would refuse to only have other teams in that league to play against - they rely too heavily on having small-school cupcakes to beat up on - they'd never break away and leave themselves without as many cupcake options. Of course, part of me is just in denial because the repercussions of that happening on the OTHER schools (remaining in NCAA) would be devastating - no interest, no media coverage, no TV, it would be as popular as if CBA games were televised ("but they aren't".... "exactly.")

Back to the topic, what about all the rumors for years about the Big Ten wanting Missouri? Maybe they take Notre Dame, Missouri, and Rutgers....

Regardless, I still think that in about 3 or 4 years, the "conference" landscape will be completely different than it is now, with some new conferences added, and one or two former conferences having folded.