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 Post subject: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Sounds like they're in deep, and the gymnastics guy was just the tip of the iceberg. This should be interesting.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/222 ... -case-espn

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches ... niversity/


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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:40 am 
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I caught some of the 30 by 30 ESPN show (was surfing so don’t really recall) and they were laying into the whole mess. This will not end well.

I am no friend of Penn State, but this whole MSU thing is shaping up to be at least as bad institutionally.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:44 am 
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But because they are in the Big 10, they will not do any punishment stronger than a slap of the wrist and a wag of the finger admonishing them not to do anything like it again. Death penalties are only for schools in second tier conference members.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:00 am 
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No death penalty, but the media scrutiny will cost them their football coach & probably Izzo too. Izzo didn't have an angry press conference like Dantonio did so he'll survive longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:00 am 
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There should be no NCAA penalties it is outside their remit. That said there should be multiple indictments and people should go to jail

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Michigan State to Baylor, Penn State, and Tennessee - hold my beer.

In MSU's case it is more like a keg though. They just made the others look like complete amateurs. It might be a race at MSU to see who can cut the first deal and through whom under the bus. They are going to eat themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:41 pm 
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I will start by saying I was ripped for saying Teddy Veal should have been kicked off the football team when he was accused. Rightfully, many of you pointed out that Veal should be afforded his due process and that ultimately he was not prosecuted.

What happened to the victims of Nassar is as heinous as could ever be imagined. As a father to a young girl and having a twin sister, I will always be more apt to take the side of the accuser. I believe most rape allegations are probably true.

However, when you actually read both sides of the story from local Michigan papers and realize the accusations against the football and basketball programs have nothing to do with Nassar you might draw a different conclusion. I might be off on some of the exact facts as I’m speaking from memory of the articles I read. Anyway, D’Antonio reported cases to campus police/administration and kicked kids off the team. Of the 6 kids accused and not kicked off the team prior to 2017, apparently charges were either never filed or dropped against them. Keith Mumphery was already off the team when he was accused. In some instances it was reported that D’Antonio was never even told about the accusations.

Keith Appling has done a lot of terrible things since he left the program but apparently the accuser in the case cited by ESPN declined to press charges at the time. What was Izzo supposed to do?

All I’m saying is that D’Antonio and Izzo have been lauded for years as being great men.

They should be afforded the same due process.


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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:58 pm 
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I get what you are saying, NJWave, but just from what you wrote alone it sure smacks of a pervasive atmosphere where bad things are nodded and winked at. Coach “didn’t know”? That opens up a whole other can of worms. Assistants and program sycophants keeping things on the down low because no one is ever rewarded for making waves? That way the head coaches can claim deniability.

I was raised in an environment where the boss knew and didn’t act, or didn’t know but damn well should have. Both were fireable offenses.

Lauding comes when you are winning. Fans and administrations sell their souls for a winner. If this were one isolated instance of a player acting badly it could be taken at face value, but when you are talking multiple players it sure indicates a permissive atmosphere or at the very least a head in the sands approach to recruiting people of character.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:10 pm 
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TUPF wrote:
I get what you are saying, NJWave, but just from what you wrote alone it sure smacks of a pervasive atmosphere where bad things are nodded and winked at. Coach “didn’t know”? That opens up a whole other can of worms. Assistants and program sycophants keeping things on the down low because no one is ever rewarded for making waves? That way the head coaches can claim deniability.

I was raised in an environment where the boss knew and didn’t act, or didn’t know but damn well should have. Both were fireable offenses.

Lauding comes when you are winning. Fans and administrations sell their souls for a winner. If this were one isolated instance of a player acting badly it could be taken at face value, but when you are talking multiple players it sure indicates a permissive atmosphere or at the very least a head in the sands approach to recruiting people of character.


I'll translate for you. Tom and Mark are the captains of their respective ships. Title IX office is JAG, AD is Commodore, and the President is CINCPAC. The captains reported to or facilitated JAG and/or reported up to the Commodore and CINCPAC who in turn gave the captains the all clear. The malfeasance lies not with the captains, but the superiors.

Set all of that aside, the AD and/or the president should be indicted for their actions vis a vis the doctor. They knowingly enabled a predator.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Saw Izzo at a Press Conference at noon on ESPN. The optics are not good for him. He is clearly uncomfortable answering ANY questions. He looked guilty as hell, like putting lipstick on a pig.

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Rotorooter wrote:
Saw Izzo at a Press Conference at noon on ESPN. The optics are not good for him. He is clearly uncomfortable answering ANY questions. He looked guilty as hell, like putting lipstick on a pig.


"Coach, did you enjoy your pregame meal today?"

"I've cooperated with every investigation and will continue to cooperate with every investigation."

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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:20 pm 
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I'm hoping Izzo & D'antonio don't get sucked into this sewer.


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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:53 pm 
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I don't understand the sexual assault counselor in the Outside the Lines piece who claimed that the administration swept things under the rug or handled things internally rather than going to the police. Why didn't she do anything about it if she felt that way? Didn't she have responsibility if she knew things were not being handled properly? For somebody that is the centerpiece of allegations against the administration and the coaches she has a lot of explaining to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Michigan State
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:59 am 
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NJwave wrote:
I don't understand the sexual assault counselor in the Outside the Lines piece who claimed that the administration swept things under the rug or handled things internally rather than going to the police. Why didn't she do anything about it if she felt that way? Didn't she have responsibility if she knew things were not being handled properly? For somebody that is the centerpiece of allegations against the administration and the coaches she has a lot of explaining to do.


Unfortunately, there whistleblowers are all too often not treated very well in institutional settings. In medicine we all find what has happened at VA facilities across the US abhorrent; there are places where people have tried to step forward and bring up problems, only to find themselves either out of a job, or placed in the equivalent of the black hole of Calcutta in their place of work. When I was studying in Mexico, we were quietly warned not to be visible; "anonymous at the Autonomous."

Institutions also have tons of protections to preserve their reputations. The Roman Catholic church has had problems with child abusers for years; all too often when one is caught, they would "solve" the problem by relocating the offender. One guy who was in the dorms with me while I was in HS in St. Louis accused one teacher 20 years after the fact; I recall that the teacher had suddenly left the school and the order, but very little was said to anyone as to why. Only later did one of the priests at the school confirm to me that he had been suspected of abuse, and was removed from the school and the order accordingly. At least they did not allow him to continue teaching in their system.

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