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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Enough of Miller's "clients" who received "loans" signed rich NBA contracts. Facts will come out eventually as to whether these were repaid or not. I guess they were.

Ironically if I had to make a true WAG here (nothing semi-about it), the players who did not retain Miller as an agent entering the NBA are the ones who may have not repaid the "loans" and have the potential tax issues. How was Miller going to collect? Call 911? Turn in the coach bag men?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:39 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
So Sean Miller's buyout doubles if he's fired for cause vs without cause due to an apparent contact mistake by Arizona. Fun!


I guess the message from the Arizona administration was "if you're not cheating, you're not trying!"


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:15 am 
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Johnny4 wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
So Sean Miller's buyout doubles if he's fired for cause vs without cause due to an apparent contact mistake by Arizona. Fun!


I guess the message from the Arizona administration was "if you're not cheating, you're not trying!"


So don't they just fire him without cause? Is his attorney going to make a case that 'no, he actually was fired for cause'?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:01 am 
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The U of Arizona Athletics Dept. has had a tough year, to say the least. Tough two months, now that I think about it. About like every day in the Louisville Athletics Dept.

The NCAA won't do a thing to these big programs--too much money depends on them and the media will bring all the necessary pressures to bear. What the PTB don't understand is that MBB will survive the scandal if they properly clear it up and punish those programs--other programs will step in and take their places. The popularity of the game is bigger than that of any particular program or fan base. But there are too many gutless people in charge to do the right thing. It'll be papered over, just watch.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:32 am 
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Rotorooter wrote:
The U of Arizona Athletics Dept. has had a tough year, to say the least. Tough two months, now that I think about it. About like every day in the Louisville Athletics Dept.

The NCAA won't do a thing to these big programs--too much money depends on them and the media will bring all the necessary pressures to bear. What the PTB don't understand is that MBB will survive the scandal if they properly clear it up and punish those programs--other programs will step in and take their places. The popularity of the game is bigger than that of any particular program or fan base. But there are too many gutless people in charge to do the right thing. It'll be papered over, just watch.

Except this isn't the NCAA, it's the FBI, right?

I heard on the radio this morning that Arizona courts are big on "the intent" and the mistake in Miller's contract regarding the Cause clause may not matter. Of course, the radio hosts were laughing at the idea that the contract would be void because "no, really, we swear, that's not what we meant."


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:42 am 
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MattK wrote:
Johnny4 wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
So Sean Miller's buyout doubles if he's fired for cause vs without cause due to an apparent contact mistake by Arizona. Fun!


I guess the message from the Arizona administration was "if you're not cheating, you're not trying!"


So don't they just fire him without cause? Is his attorney going to make a case that 'no, he actually was fired for cause'?

Of course, but it's still funny

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:38 am 
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PeteRasche wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
The U of Arizona Athletics Dept. has had a tough year, to say the least. Tough two months, now that I think about it. About like every day in the Louisville Athletics Dept.

The NCAA won't do a thing to these big programs--too much money depends on them and the media will bring all the necessary pressures to bear. What the PTB don't understand is that MBB will survive the scandal if they properly clear it up and punish those programs--other programs will step in and take their places. The popularity of the game is bigger than that of any particular program or fan base. But there are too many gutless people in charge to do the right thing. It'll be papered over, just watch.

Except this isn't the NCAA, it's the FBI, right?


Pete, the FBI will focus prosecution on the individuals, not the programs/institutions themselves. It will be up to the NCAA to dish out punishment on the institutions. Of course, the Universities will deny any knowledge so as to keep their nose clean, and all they'll do is hire new coaches and move on. And the cycle will repeat itself, with the media promoting the programs with the largest fan followings, i.e. the ones in trouble today.

Still, when you think about, those programs with their noses clean will still benefit short-term from the mess that has been created. After a few AAU guys have been prosecuted and/or the IRS sicced on them, I imagine it will level the playing field to more "traditional" recruiting methods.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Baywave1 wrote:
Enough of Miller's "clients" who received "loans" signed rich NBA contracts. Facts will come out eventually as to whether these were repaid or not. I guess they were.

Ironically if I had to make a true WAG here (nothing semi-about it), the players who did not retain Miller as an agent entering the NBA are the ones who may have not repaid the "loans" and have the potential tax issues. How was Miller going to collect? Call 911? Turn in the coach bag men?

These are such piddling amounts (most less than 100k) and the potential "recovery" amount of taxes/fines would be so little that it'd hardly seem worth the bad optics for the FBI/IRS to pursue on any grand scale.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:29 pm 
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It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:59 pm 
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NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:00 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


He basically said what I said but you enjoy a tussle

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:10 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


I'm not sure from a legal perspective whether there were laws broken. I think that would be a major determining factor in to whether the IRS would consider it ill gotten gains.

The best examples I can think of are prostitutes and drug dealers. While their professions are illegal in most states, they are required to pay taxes on their income.

Better question, where did Sean Miller get $100,000 that couldn't be traced?

Back to work for me or I won't be a CPA much longer.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:19 pm 
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NJwave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


I'm not sure from a legal perspective whether there were laws broken. I think that would be a major determining factor in to whether the IRS would consider it ill gotten gains.

The best examples I can think of are prostitutes and drug dealers. While their professions are illegal in most states, they are required to pay taxes on their income.

Better question, where did Sean Miller get $100,000 that couldn't be traced?

Back to work for me or I won't be a CPA much longer.


Definitely some laws were broken, whether they'll be indicted or not remains to be seen.

100K is from the slush fund

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Since so many schools are involved, what is the big picture? Any thoughts on how this will effect college basketball and how could it benefit or hurt Tulane?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:03 pm 
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windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


He basically said what I said but you enjoy a tussle

Lol, you're talking about gift taxes but sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:14 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


He basically said what I said but you enjoy a tussle

Lol, you're talking about gift taxes but sure.


Sigh

Read what I originally wrote.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:36 pm 
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windywave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


I'm not sure from a legal perspective whether there were laws broken. I think that would be a major determining factor in to whether the IRS would consider it ill gotten gains.

The best examples I can think of are prostitutes and drug dealers. While their professions are illegal in most states, they are required to pay taxes on their income.

Better question, where did Sean Miller get $100,000 that couldn't be traced?

Back to work for me or I won't be a CPA much longer.


Definitely some laws were broken, whether they'll be indicted or not remains to be seen.

100K is from the slush fund
I don't think things are nearly that black and white.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:38 pm 
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windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
long green wrote:
If a kid and his family take a big cash handout and do not report it are they evading tax? I wouldn't release the hounds on everyone, you couldn't, but making a few examples might do some good. The class of people who need to be cleaned out are the AAU coaches and the agents. Fewer of those to focus on so that's good.

Sure, if it's taxable. Most numbers I've seen aren't terribly big and there are ways to get around paying taxes anyway (gifts, loans, etc.). The real class of people to clean out are the NCAA.


Gift taxes and loans that are fraudulent are taxable. It would discourage people from taking illicit money

This?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
windywave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
NJwave wrote:
It's interesting from a tax perspective. I think I would argue the smaller amounts are "gifts" and not taxable to the recipient as I don't believe they were enough to influence a kid to go to a certain school or even sign with the agent. Unless they want to set a precedent, I don't see the IRS going after a college basketball for a fringe benefit of $400. As ML Wave said, not worth the time and expense.

The $100,000 payment by Miller, if true is a whole different ballgame. I think it would be considered ill gotten gains and subject to tax. It would not be tax deductible by Miller.

Just one CPA's opinion for what it is worth.

Oh good, someone who knows what they're talking about! Ill gotten gains is interesting...you see these payments discussed as "bribes" in the news but I think a decent case can be made that there's nothing illegal going on.


I'm not sure from a legal perspective whether there were laws broken. I think that would be a major determining factor in to whether the IRS would consider it ill gotten gains.

The best examples I can think of are prostitutes and drug dealers. While their professions are illegal in most states, they are required to pay taxes on their income.

Better question, where did Sean Miller get $100,000 that couldn't be traced?

Back to work for me or I won't be a CPA much longer.


Definitely some laws were broken, whether they'll be indicted or not remains to be seen.

100K is from the slush fund
I don't think things are nearly that black and white.


Of course you don't

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:42 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
windywave wrote:
ml wave wrote:
long green wrote:
If a kid and his family take a big cash handout and do not report it are they evading tax? I wouldn't release the hounds on everyone, you couldn't, but making a few examples might do some good. The class of people who need to be cleaned out are the AAU coaches and the agents. Fewer of those to focus on so that's good.

Sure, if it's taxable. Most numbers I've seen aren't terribly big and there are ways to get around paying taxes anyway (gifts, loans, etc.). The real class of people to clean out are the NCAA.


Gift taxes and loans that are fraudulent are taxable. It would discourage people from taking illicit money

This?


No

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