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 Post subject: Unintended Consequences
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:21 am 
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New rule go in effect this year:

1) preventing schools to limit where one can transfer

2) allowing players to redshirt even if they play in up to four games.

I'm not sure many predicted those rules to be used TOGETHER (along with the graduate tranfer rule) to allow seniors to play four games, be unhappy with their touches and/or playing time, and then quit the team planning to transfer and play a fifth year. But it's precisely what two WR's (one for OK State and one for Arkansas) are doing.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... t-transfer

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... s-transfer

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:53 am 
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Yeah, there's been even more than that. I'm curious why they wouldn't have to sit out the first 4 games next year to fulfill the year off, but I don't know the exact rules and don't have the time to look it up

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:04 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
Yeah, there's been even more than that. I'm curious why they wouldn't have to sit out the first 4 games next year to fulfill the year off, but I don't know the exact rules and don't have the time to look it up

Well, since four or less games don't "count"...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:49 am 
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PeteRasche wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Yeah, there's been even more than that. I'm curious why they wouldn't have to sit out the first 4 games next year to fulfill the year off, but I don't know the exact rules and don't have the time to look it up

Well, since four or less games don't "count"...

They don't count toward the redshirt year, but I thought you had to do a "year in residence" when you transfer. I guess with the grad transfers that is moot, but some of the guys transferring are not grad transfers

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:07 am 
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WaveProf wrote:
New rule go in effect this year:

1) preventing schools to limit where one can transfer

2) allowing players to redshirt even if they play in up to four games.

I'm not sure many predicted those rules to be used TOGETHER (along with the graduate tranfer rule) to allow seniors to play four games, be unhappy with their touches and/or playing time, and then quit the team planning to transfer and play a fifth year. But it's precisely what two WR's (one for OK State and one for Arkansas) are doing.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... t-transfer

http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... s-transfer


Hmm... the OK state reciever in question is our newest coaches son. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Yeah, there's been even more than that. I'm curious why they wouldn't have to sit out the first 4 games next year to fulfill the year off, but I don't know the exact rules and don't have the time to look it up

Well, since four or less games don't "count"...

They don't count toward the redshirt year, but I thought you had to do a "year in residence" when you transfer. I guess with the grad transfers that is moot, but some of the guys transferring are not grad transfers

If they're not grads, they'd have to sit out the entire next season, so they'd be better off playing out the whole year and then redshirting the next season at the new school. Guessing this quirk only applies to those who will graduate and then transfer.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:20 am 
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Looks like the QB. Who started the first four games for Clemson is going to do the same thing

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:33 am 
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Clemson and Alabama in particular have churned QBs but it's obviously universal as we have seen at LSU and TU.

Maybe it's my libertarian streak but folks should be allowed to go where they want to for school same as we pick our employer. (Yes, Don Quixote here is against professional drafts too.)

Meanwhile let's see where the OK SU fellow lands??? :-D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:50 am 
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Baywave1 wrote:
Maybe it's my libertarian streak but folks should be allowed to go where they want to for school same as we pick our employer.
I’m split. Part of me longs for the days when as a kid in the 60s we knew every player on the Red Sox and the player spent his entire career there. Those days are gone forever. That chimera got a stake through my heart when the Rocket wound up, after a cup of coffee with the Blue Jays, with the Evil Empire.

Then you have the other side of the coin when in my GE days Jack Welch said “on Fridays we’re even”. It’s hard to stay loyal to a team when the players are ephemeral but then as college sports fans we should know better because the players are only leased for a few years. This new rule just makes the lease agreement effective for the first month of a season.

WaveProf named the OP well. It’s getting to where any organization should have a person whose sole job is to look at any proposed new policy and say “what’s the worst that could happen?” What is the most ridiculous thing that might happen after I take off my blinders of ...”that could never happen!”? Call it the Vice President of WTF!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:09 am 
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I like the new red shirt rule and massively like graduate transfer rule, for just the reasons Bay implies. But the unintended consequence of being able to combine the two is a bit more suspect to me. But I think it will be a rare enough thing that it’ll be far from disaster.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:23 am 
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Baywave1 wrote:
Clemson and Alabama in particular have churned QBs but it's obviously universal as we have seen at LSU and TU.

Maybe it's my libertarian streak but folks should be allowed to go where they want to for school same as we pick our employer. (Yes, Don Quixote here is against professional drafts too.)

Meanwhile let's see where the OK SU fellow lands??? :-D


I am comparable to Ron Swanson and the I view the draft differently differently in that the players actually play for the league since it is the actual corporation(NFL) and not the semi-franchised branches(teams).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:25 am 
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TUPF wrote:
Baywave1 wrote:
Maybe it's my libertarian streak but folks should be allowed to go where they want to for school same as we pick our employer.
I’m split. Part of me longs for the days when as a kid in the 60s we knew every player on the Red Sox and the player spent his entire career there. Those days are gone forever. That chimera got a stake through my heart when the Rocket wound up, after a cup of coffee with the Blue Jays, with the Evil Empire.

Then you have the other side of the coin when in my GE days Jack Welch said “on Fridays we’re even”. It’s hard to stay loyal to a team when the players are ephemeral but then as college sports fans we should know better because the players are only leased for a few years. This new rule just makes the lease agreement effective for the first month of a season.

WaveProf named the OP well. It’s getting to where any organization should have a person whose sole job is to look at any proposed new policy and say “what’s the worst that could happen?” What is the most ridiculous thing that might happen after I take off my blinders of ...”that could never happen!”? Call it the Vice President of WTF!


Wade Boggs was worse.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:32 am 
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WaveProf wrote:
I like the new red shirt rule and massively like graduate transfer rule, for just the reasons Bay implies. But the unintended consequence of being able to combine the two is a bit more suspect to me. But I think it will be a rare enough thing that it’ll be far from disaster.

It's happened like 8 times this week already

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:36 am 
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WaveProf wrote:
Looks like the QB. Who started the first four games for Clemson is going to do the same thing


I think Bryant's play will be now be...
2018- redshirt; 2019- JC; then two years of eligibility left at a FBS school
if he didn't redshirt this year he would a) have to red shirt at FBS school and then only have one year of eligibility. or B) play one year at a JC and one at FBS

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:38 am 
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The big problem is that there are very weak incentives for kids to stay.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:50 am 
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Poseidon wrote:
WaveProf wrote:
Looks like the QB. Who started the first four games for Clemson is going to do the same thing


I think Bryant's play will be now be...
2018- redshirt; 2019- JC; then two years of eligibility left at a FBS school
if he didn't redshirt this year he would a) have to red shirt at FBS school and then only have one year of eligibility. or B) play one year at a JC and one at FBS

Bryant's a senior. he'll redshirt this year then grad transfer for next year. he only has one year of eligibility left.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:56 am 
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I can't help but think a coach is going to get burned by this (i.e. Lawrence gets hurt and Clemson doesn't have Bryant to fall back on) and it will be no more Mr. Nice Coaches.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:00 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
I can't help but think a coach is going to get burned by this (i.e. Lawrence gets hurt and Clemson doesn't have Bryant to fall back on) and it will be no more Mr. Nice Coaches.
Unintended consequences. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:35 am 
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gerryb323 wrote:
Poseidon wrote:
WaveProf wrote:
Looks like the QB. Who started the first four games for Clemson is going to do the same thing


I think Bryant's play will be now be...
2018- redshirt; 2019- JC; then two years of eligibility left at a FBS school
if he didn't redshirt this year he would a) have to red shirt at FBS school and then only have one year of eligibility. or B) play one year at a JC and one at FBS

Bryant's a senior. he'll redshirt this year then grad transfer for next year. he only has one year of eligibility left.


You are right. i was confusing him with Johnson their 5 star Soph who left this summer.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:21 pm 
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From ESPN: "How Coaches are Prepping for When, not If, QB's Transfer"

http://www.espn.com/college-football/in ... -transfers

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:37 pm 
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WaveProf wrote:
From ESPN: "How Coaches are Prepping for When, not If, QB's Transfer"

http://www.espn.com/college-football/in ... -transfers


If I was a 4 or 5 star and I wanted to play earlier I would consider a mid to lower level FBS school were I could play immediately and not be trumped one year later by the staff's next shiny new toy. As far as the draft goes its pretty proven that there is little to no reason to go to a top 10 school to raise your value. I think there is a stat about the Big 10 not having a QB drafted in the first round since Kerry Collins or something like that. Like 20 years. Look at Oliver from Houston. He is the perfect example how to go to a mid level program. The main reason I think they are going is they are being paid. It isn't about winning championships because if that was the case they wouldn't transfer.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:13 pm 
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gerryb323 wrote:
I can't help but think a coach is going to get burned by this (i.e. Lawrence gets hurt and Clemson doesn't have Bryant to fall back on) and it will be no more Mr. Nice Coaches.

Maybe if they were nice in the first place, the kids wouldn't transfer?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:53 pm 
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ml wave wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
I can't help but think a coach is going to get burned by this (i.e. Lawrence gets hurt and Clemson doesn't have Bryant to fall back on) and it will be no more Mr. Nice Coaches.

Maybe if they were nice in the first place, the kids wouldn't transfer?


Well they make as many promises as politicians in some cases.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Poseidon wrote:
ml wave wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
I can't help but think a coach is going to get burned by this (i.e. Lawrence gets hurt and Clemson doesn't have Bryant to fall back on) and it will be no more Mr. Nice Coaches.

Maybe if they were nice in the first place, the kids wouldn't transfer?


Well they make as many promises as politicians in some cases.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Poseidon wrote:
WaveProf wrote:
From ESPN: "How Coaches are Prepping for When, not If, QB's Transfer"

http://www.espn.com/college-football/in ... -transfers


If I was a 4 or 5 star and I wanted to play earlier I would consider a mid to lower level FBS school were I could play immediately and not be trumped one year later by the staff's next shiny new toy. As far as the draft goes its pretty proven that there is little to no reason to go to a top 10 school to raise your value. I think there is a stat about the Big 10 not having a QB drafted in the first round since Kerry Collins or something like that. Like 20 years. Look at Oliver from Houston. He is the perfect example how to go to a mid level program. The main reason I think they are going is they are being paid. It isn't about winning championships because if that was the case they wouldn't transfer.
North Dakota State

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