Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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1. It's being installed over a "bike track" that students frequently use? Not clear if it would replace the track or simply interfere with it. Maybe they could design it to keep the track in place.

2. Student government kid says "a majority of students are opposed to it". No proof given. I'd bet that's a complete exaggeration. Either they did a campus-wide online poll and like 23 out of 42 respondents were against it (the government kids and their friends making up the 23, and, hey, that's a majority!) or else they stood in their university center and asked students to sign a petition with a skewed wording (akin to "Athletics wants to build a football dome which will keep students from being able to use the bike track and which will hinder the development of women's sports and equality... Sounds terrible, right?... If you think that sounds unfair, sign here!"). The internet has a bad habit of making a couple of loud voices seem like a "everyone".

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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IMO students should not have much of any say how the school spends its money or what long term decisions are made. They should have some say in how the more immediate campus life is ruled and organized. The whims of 17-23 year olds is not a very good way to run a long term institution. Reason>majority;
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Poseidon wrote:IMO students should not have much of any say how the school spends its money or what long term decisions are made. They should have some say in how the more immediate campus life is ruled and organized. The whims of 17-23 year olds is not a very good way to run a long term institution. Reason>majority;
I was with the tone of this thread until this. While students shouldn't be able to kneejerk direction with every whim, universities would be well served to remember that they exist, primarily, for their undergraduate students. They are the point of the whole darn thing. And they should have say.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:
Poseidon wrote:IMO students should not have much of any say how the school spends its money or what long term decisions are made. They should have some say in how the more immediate campus life is ruled and organized. The whims of 17-23 year olds is not a very good way to run a long term institution. Reason>majority;
I was with the tone of this thread until this. While students shouldn't be able to kneejerk direction with every whim, universities would be well served to remember that they exist, primarily, for their undergraduate students. They are the point of the whole darn thing. And they should have say.
Saying that a bunch of 18-22 year olds, many of whom are there to party and spend their parents' money until they graduate and move back in with said parents, should affect BUSINESS DECISIONS of a major university is ridiculous. There are lots of people being paid lots of money, most or all of whom presumably proved their smarts previously in their lives to get to their current positions, who decide things such as this. And as I said above, more proof is needed as to whether this *really* causes major damage to student life or athletic gender equality. You know as well as I that a student government member claiming "a majority of students don't want this" means absolutely nothing without proof.

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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PeteRasche wrote:
WaveProf wrote:
Poseidon wrote:IMO students should not have much of any say how the school spends its money or what long term decisions are made. They should have some say in how the more immediate campus life is ruled and organized. The whims of 17-23 year olds is not a very good way to run a long term institution. Reason>majority;
I was with the tone of this thread until this. While students shouldn't be able to kneejerk direction with every whim, universities would be well served to remember that they exist, primarily, for their undergraduate students. They are the point of the whole darn thing. And they should have say.
Saying that a bunch of 18-22 year olds, many of whom are there to party and spend their parents' money until they graduate and move back in with said parents, should affect BUSINESS DECISIONS of a major university is ridiculous. There are lots of people being paid lots of money, most or all of whom presumably proved their smarts previously in their lives to get to their current positions, who decide things such as this. And as I said above, more proof is needed as to whether this *really* causes major damage to student life or athletic gender equality. You know as well as I that a student government member claiming "a majority of students don't want this" means absolutely nothing without proof.
I agree wholeheartedly with Pete. Yes, undergrads are the raison d'etre of the universities, but their role in the university is to learn and develop, not to run the show. The kids are not equipped, either by experience or by knowledge, to understand all the components of the major decisions they seek to influence and allowing them to control the decisions is a good recipe for unintended consequences. And, as Pete said, their interests and goals at that point are not particularly suited to doing what's "best"; they are interested primarily in the most popular of their myopic viewpoints.
A major part of a University education has to be the development of the discipline to forego one's own preferences in order to allow more experienced and more educated deciders to make the call they are being paid to make. That includes the maturity to accept those decisions that might conflict with your own peer-influenced beliefs.
Too many children at that age have bought into the message--intended for encouragement--that they are now "adults" who should not allow anybody to stand in the way of their goals. Unfortunately, they are still often ill-equipped to formulate adequately-reasoned goals. They expect to be CEOs, when the have only attained a playground level of maturity.

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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I'm certainly not saying that student government should be taken seriously, nor that students should be the #1 driving force behind business decisions. But universities all too often don't take students into account at all, treating them almost as a necessary evil to pay the bills. I directly implied that I didn't think they should be "driving" business decisions in general, only that they shouldn't be ignored, and I explicitly stated that on this issue with Rice, I'm not really with the students at all (that I'd been agreeing with the tone of the thread until Poseidon took it somewhere else).

All of that said, the idea that we should think of or treat college students as children lies at the root of everything that is wrong with out society today. It's how we got in what messes we are in, by enabling helicopter parenting and the idea that a 18 year old shouldn't be equipped to take charge of their own life.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:...All of that said, the idea that we should think of or treat college students as children lies at the root of everything that is wrong with out society today. It's how we got in what messes we are in, by enabling helicopter parenting and the idea that a 18 year old shouldn't be equipped to take charge of their own life.
I base my opinion on my own experiences. When I look back at my 20-year-old self, I am astounded at how naive I was. I believed some really stupid things, and I had not yet learned a LOT of stuff that has shaped my later opinions. I shudder to think what I might have screwed up if I were actually allowed to make major decisions.
I'm still astounded that I didn't get Seabees killed when I was a 24-year-old Company Commander.
I guess it's how the world operates, and always has operated, but it's scary, given the modern reality that kids are protected from responsibilities until they are well out from under their parents' roof.

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:I'm certainly not saying that student government should be taken seriously, nor that students should be the #1 driving force behind business decisions. But universities all too often don't take students into account at all, treating them almost as a necessary evil to pay the bills. I directly implied that I didn't think they should be "driving" business decisions in general, only that they shouldn't be ignored, and I explicitly stated that on this issue with Rice, I'm not really with the students at all (that I'd been agreeing with the tone of the thread until Poseidon took it somewhere else).

All of that said, the idea that we should think of or treat college students as children lies at the root of everything that is wrong with out society today. It's how we got in what messes we are in, by enabling helicopter parenting and the idea that a 18 year old shouldn't be equipped to take charge of their own life.
Where did I take it? Please help me understand.

"IMO students should not have much of any say how the school spends its money or what long term decisions are made. They should have some say in how the more immediate campus life is ruled and organized. The whims of 17-23 year olds is not a very good way to run a long term institution. Reason>majority;"

Exactly which part was my tone out of line?

I am not trying to argue. If I am somehow tone-deaf I would like to know for my own reflection.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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I didn’t mean that you took it anywhere out of line or inappropriate. I’m sorry if my tone implied that. I can’t think of a time you’ve ever taken anything in any direction like that, so I’m truly sorry if I implied it

What I simply meant was that you opinion seemed more generalized than those before it. I don’t think these students should have their way. But I do think students should have a voice in “such things”
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:I didn’t mean that you took it anywhere out of line or inappropriate. I’m sorry if my tone implied that. I can’t think of a time you’ve ever taken anything in any direction like that, so I’m truly sorry if I implied it

What I simply meant was that you opinion seemed more generalized than those before it. I don’t think these students should have their way. But I do think students should have a voice in “such things”
But if they don't get their way, they're going to cry, so we should just let them do what they want!
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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I see a lot more crying done by old men when young people have different interests or opinions than they want them to have.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:I didn’t mean that you took it anywhere out of line or inappropriate. I’m sorry if my tone implied that. I can’t think of a time you’ve ever taken anything in any direction like that, so I’m truly sorry if I implied it

What I simply meant was that you opinion seemed more generalized than those before it. I don’t think these students should have their way. But I do think students should have a voice in “such things”
Fair enough. I was zooming out with the intention of stating from the principle that the SGA's don't run the school. They are akin to the British Monarchy at this point history. From my experiences most students care very little for the SGA and the SGA members are in it to put it on their CV. I can understand if this tone comes off as somewhat pessimistic, but that is the reality. The schools should pay real attention to the SGA when they are basically all in agreement on something that effects student life(housing conditions, use of common areas, parking?). Academic rigor, use of real estate, and finances should be in control of the university stewards(board, owners, etc.).

Looking at the actual issue as far as I can tell the "bike path" is more of a parking lot on the west side of the stadium. On a personal note I jogged around that campus for a number of week while my father was at MD Anderson and there are plenty of other biking paths and Herman Park right there. the argument that a small bubble would have an effect on students ability to jog or bike is very weak.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:I see a lot more crying done by old men when young people have different interests or opinions than they want them to have.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:I see a lot more crying done by old men when young people have different interests or opinions than they want them to have.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Poseidon wrote:
WaveProf wrote:I see a lot more crying done by old men when young people have different interests or opinions than they want them to have.
Image
Didn't mean you. I didn't feel old at 37 either, and I keep telling my wife she's not old too (she's that age as well). But I'm 41 this weekend and feel VERY old all of a sudden. And in terms of argument/perspective, almost every single one of us on yogwf "has the olds" :mrgreen:
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:
Poseidon wrote:
WaveProf wrote:I see a lot more crying done by old men when young people have different interests or opinions than they want them to have.
Image
Didn't mean you. I didn't feel old at 37 either, and I keep telling my wife she's not old too (she's that age as well). But I'm 41 this weekend and feel VERY old all of a sudden. And in terms of argument/perspective, almost every single one of us on yogwf "has the olds" :mrgreen:
40+ is the age of reckoning. As early as your teens you can be called the next big thing yet you’ll be forgiven your youthful foibles; in your twenties you are an up and coming; in your thirties youth is still on your side to some extent but you are getting along in a marriage, maybe having a kid, buying a house; in your forties the excuses of youth are gone. You are in danger of becoming a never was.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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WaveProf wrote:But I'm 41 this weekend and feel VERY old all of a sudden.
Dude, I would have guessed you early 30s.

To me, the rude awakening of age is when you have a pulled muscle or a sore joint or a wrecked back or take a really long time to stand up and when someone asks what you did, the answer is something in the vein of "I slept wrong." Or "I sat on the floor with my kid for more than 3 minutes". Or "I pulled a few weeds in the yard."

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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… sneezed while shaving. :(

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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PeteRasche wrote:Dude, I would have guessed you early 30s.
Nope, but you just made my day! :coolshades:

I was at Tulane 3 years and am finishing my 9th year at Nicholls, and I had my PhD finished before I started. So it all adds up.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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Roller wrote:It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Tell that to the parents at the playground.
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Re: Rice Students Try to Block indoor practice facility

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OGSB wrote:
Roller wrote:It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Tell that to the parents at the playground.
Perhaps it's the modern parents at the modern playgrounds that are forcing the modern kids to wait until they are much older to have a happy childhood.

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