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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:35 am 
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“By the time the players get to the college campus they already have a deal [with an agent],” Dawkins said. “... I could be mistaken, but there is no one signing players that isn’t paying people … Basically anybody who was in charge of the kid’s recruiting process was being paid.”
Essentially, everyone is getting money. Everyone. And usually by more than one entity of agents, financial planners or business managers, all desperate to get a future multimillionaire NBA client. And then there are the college coaches, boosters and others throwing money around too — on Wednesday an Arizona assistant coach said on a recorded phone call that head coach Sean Miller was paying star player DeAndre Ayton $10,000 a month.
That’s how valuable the players are and the wheels of capitalism are never going to stop because of the NCAA rulebook. That's true even if the FBI decides it should spend years and millions of dollars trying to bust some low-level hustlers via undercover agents, seed money, Manhattan yachts and sweetheart cooperating-witness deals for actual felons.
Dawkins had no problem paying players. Actually, he reveled in it, believing he was righting a wrong that too often put kids from poor families at a disadvantage. Maybe their parents wanted to travel to watch them play. Maybe they needed money to fit in amidst wealthy student-bodies. Maybe they just deserved it.
“The NCAA rules restrict [pay] and they can’t even work,” Dawkins testified. “Because the players can’t receive [pay] from obvious reasons such as ticket sales or their name, there has to be a third [party].”
Dawkins was glad to be that party, especially if later his new management agency would be repaid by having the player sign up as a client. He was hardly alone. He said he didn’t know of one NBA agent that operated differently.
“Everyone was paying players,” he said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/how-one-basketball-middleman-exposed-college-amateurism-for-the-farce-it-is/ar-AAAMCzN?li=BBnba9I&ocid=spartanntp

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:43 am 
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And no one cares. No ncaa, school, or conference at the trial. Swept under the rug. There are very few great amateurs and too much money is rolling in for anyone to do anything about it. This isn’t even a story to the people who can do something about it or you end up like Alleva.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:50 am 
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Dawkins: Tom Izzo 'flat out' refused to pay for a recruit

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:18 am 
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tjtlja wrote:
And no one cares. No ncaa, school, or conference at the trial. Swept under the rug. There are very few great amateurs and too much money is rolling in for anyone to do anything about it. This isn’t even a story to the people who can do something about it or you end up like Alleva.

Sadly true. It would be nice if the hammer fell in some way because it would greatly even the playing field for smaller schools with smaller budgets. But the NCAA has no interest in killing its own cash cow, and frankly, I'm sure the TV networks who paid billions for contracts are pressuring the NCAA to do nothing as well.

The only way to even the playing field is to allow players to be paid, but this would drive most schools to non-scholarship D3, because if you pay the football or MBB players, you also have to pay every other sport, including all the Title IX sports, and you have to pay them the same thing. Most schools not in the P5 leagues can't afford that and even some P5s probably couldn't or wouldn't. And even if we somehow moved beyond that and everyone was paying every player the same amount, the same schools cheating now would just keep cheating with more money on top of the legal payments.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:52 am 
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PeteRasche wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
And no one cares. No ncaa, school, or conference at the trial. Swept under the rug. There are very few great amateurs and too much money is rolling in for anyone to do anything about it. This isn’t even a story to the people who can do something about it or you end up like Alleva.

Sadly true. It would be nice if the hammer fell in some way because it would greatly even the playing field for smaller schools with smaller budgets. But the NCAA has no interest in killing its own cash cow, and frankly, I'm sure the TV networks who paid billions for contracts are pressuring the NCAA to do nothing as well.

The only way to even the playing field is to allow players to be paid, but this would drive most schools to non-scholarship D3, because if you pay the football or MBB players, you also have to pay every other sport, including all the Title IX sports, and you have to pay them the same thing. Most schools not in the P5 leagues can't afford that and even some P5s probably couldn't or wouldn't. And even if we somehow moved beyond that and everyone was paying every player the same amount, the same schools cheating now would just keep cheating with more money on top of the legal payments.

I'm not sure that interpretation of Title IX is correct, but even if it is an easy solution is to allow players to profit from their name/likeness instead of directly paying them. Also, why would a school drop to D3 instead of paying what they could afford (almost all D1 schools are now paying the "cost of attendance" stipends) or just continuing to offer scholarships and not paying any more? Most schools are not run by morons and wouldn't entertain the 90%+ drop in revenue that D3 would entail.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:46 am 
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ml wave wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
And no one cares. No ncaa, school, or conference at the trial. Swept under the rug. There are very few great amateurs and too much money is rolling in for anyone to do anything about it. This isn’t even a story to the people who can do something about it or you end up like Alleva.

Sadly true. It would be nice if the hammer fell in some way because it would greatly even the playing field for smaller schools with smaller budgets. But the NCAA has no interest in killing its own cash cow, and frankly, I'm sure the TV networks who paid billions for contracts are pressuring the NCAA to do nothing as well.

The only way to even the playing field is to allow players to be paid, but this would drive most schools to non-scholarship D3, because if you pay the football or MBB players, you also have to pay every other sport, including all the Title IX sports, and you have to pay them the same thing. Most schools not in the P5 leagues can't afford that and even some P5s probably couldn't or wouldn't. And even if we somehow moved beyond that and everyone was paying every player the same amount, the same schools cheating now would just keep cheating with more money on top of the legal payments.

I'm not sure that interpretation of Title IX is correct, but even if it is an easy solution is to allow players to profit from their name/likeness instead of directly paying them. Also, why would a school drop to D3 instead of paying what they could afford (almost all D1 schools are now paying the "cost of attendance" stipends) or just continuing to offer scholarships and not paying any more? Most schools are not run by morons and wouldn't entertain the 90%+ drop in revenue that D3 would entail.

Most schools, even P5, are losing money in athletics. There are stories published with the deficits every so often and only the very biggest programs are ever shown profitable. How does D3 help? I don't know. But I know when schools decide that D1 athletics isn't a worthwhile endeavor, they drop to non-scholarship D3. My wife's alma mater did just that.

I didn't say Title IX would have anything to do with it, I just used the phrase "title IX sports" to save keystrokes to point out you'd have to pay your bowlers and beach volleyballers and such or there'd be a lawsuit filed immediately. They may legally be able to get away with it not being the same amount, but it would have to be something and it all adds to the deficit.

I don't see all these schools who are already teetering on the edge of athletics being deemed too expensive (see recent UConn stories for example) deciding to stick around if a rule were implemented which basically said, "the haves are about to widen the gap from you have-nots by a hundred times more than it already is" (if payment was made legal with no guidelines on how much). Why even try to compete? And if the pay was made mandatory and equal, "you now have to pay {$x thousands} per year to all your athletes on top of what it already costs". That would be too much for a lot of BoAs.

The idea of individuals being paid what they are worth (that you suggest) is intriguing. Would you regulate it at all? Or just let it be the wild west? I could see it causing strife and in-fighting amongst teammates... And possibly being an easy gateway to point-shaving... But it might work if intelligently controlled somehow.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:06 pm 
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I think the easier way to do it is to allow the athletes to make money off of their likenesses. The Zions of the world can go be in shoe commercials now and get paid. Or even "put it in a trust" until they aren't in school any more. But directly paying the players will lead to myriad unintended consequences.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Sort of like the current system which has “Indirect” payments.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:25 pm 
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tjtlja wrote:
Sort of like the current system which has “Indirect” payments.

Yep. Thats why I had ""

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:19 pm 
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PeteRasche wrote:
ml wave wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
tjtlja wrote:
And no one cares. No ncaa, school, or conference at the trial. Swept under the rug. There are very few great amateurs and too much money is rolling in for anyone to do anything about it. This isn’t even a story to the people who can do something about it or you end up like Alleva.

Sadly true. It would be nice if the hammer fell in some way because it would greatly even the playing field for smaller schools with smaller budgets. But the NCAA has no interest in killing its own cash cow, and frankly, I'm sure the TV networks who paid billions for contracts are pressuring the NCAA to do nothing as well.

The only way to even the playing field is to allow players to be paid, but this would drive most schools to non-scholarship D3, because if you pay the football or MBB players, you also have to pay every other sport, including all the Title IX sports, and you have to pay them the same thing. Most schools not in the P5 leagues can't afford that and even some P5s probably couldn't or wouldn't. And even if we somehow moved beyond that and everyone was paying every player the same amount, the same schools cheating now would just keep cheating with more money on top of the legal payments.

I'm not sure that interpretation of Title IX is correct, but even if it is an easy solution is to allow players to profit from their name/likeness instead of directly paying them. Also, why would a school drop to D3 instead of paying what they could afford (almost all D1 schools are now paying the "cost of attendance" stipends) or just continuing to offer scholarships and not paying any more? Most schools are not run by morons and wouldn't entertain the 90%+ drop in revenue that D3 would entail.

Most schools, even P5, are losing money in athletics. There are stories published with the deficits every so often and only the very biggest programs are ever shown profitable. How does D3 help? I don't know. But I know when schools decide that D1 athletics isn't a worthwhile endeavor, they drop to non-scholarship D3. My wife's alma mater did just that.

I didn't say Title IX would have anything to do with it, I just used the phrase "title IX sports" to save keystrokes to point out you'd have to pay your bowlers and beach volleyballers and such or there'd be a lawsuit filed immediately. They may legally be able to get away with it not being the same amount, but it would have to be something and it all adds to the deficit.

I don't see all these schools who are already teetering on the edge of athletics being deemed too expensive (see recent UConn stories for example) deciding to stick around if a rule were implemented which basically said, "the haves are about to widen the gap from you have-nots by a hundred times more than it already is" (if payment was made legal with no guidelines on how much). Why even try to compete? And if the pay was made mandatory and equal, "you now have to pay {$x thousands} per year to all your athletes on top of what it already costs". That would be too much for a lot of BoAs.

The idea of individuals being paid what they are worth (that you suggest) is intriguing. Would you regulate it at all? Or just let it be the wild west? I could see it causing strife and in-fighting amongst teammates... And possibly being an easy gateway to point-shaving... But it might work if intelligently controlled somehow.
Many schools that say they're losing money in athletics are doing so by choice (especially P5). Profit/loss is an accounting measure and those numbers can be manipulated to whatever outcome they prefer. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a school that dropped out of D1 due to the cost of attendance stipends added a couple years ago.

Regulation? Not sure what you mean, but probably not...if Nike wants to pay Bronny James, they should go right ahead...why should I care how much? Do you think the potential for strife and in-fighting would be more pronounced in college than it is in pro ball? And do you think players being paid (legitimately) would somehow be an easier gateway to point shaving than players not being paid (legitimately)?


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Guilty

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