Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Non-Tulane Sports Discussion
Anything that doesn't belong on the main YOGWF Sports forums e.g. Saints, Hornets, BC$, High School, etc.
User avatar
Johnny Mac
Emerald Circle
Posts: 10572
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Floriduh

Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Johnny Mac »

Ole Miss had a potential game tying TD pass called down at the 6 inch line.. no time outs, clock running. They couldn't wait for a review and tried a sneak and failed.. game over.
Image
YOGWF - of all the Tulane fans in the world, we're the Tulaniest
User avatar
long green
Cornerstone
Posts: 29126
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:34 am
Location: New Orleans

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by long green »

Referee right on the spot and didn't hesitate to make the call on that penultimate play.
And may our enemies, if they exist, be unconscious of our purpose. - From The Lady Vanishes
User avatar
MattK
President's Circle
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by MattK »

I didn’t see an angle on the goal line; but it’s hard to envision that he wasn’t in.
User avatar
TU77CAL82
Coach Level
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Broadmoor

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by TU77CAL82 »

Go Bears!
User avatar
Cheerleader
Coach Level
Posts: 2444
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:22 am
Location: Destin, FL

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Cheerleader »

Ole Miss got hosed, just like we did against SMU.
User avatar
Poseidon
Regent's Circle
Posts: 5360
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Poseidon »

Yeah they got hosed. Not sure why they reveiw any plays ever if that wasn't worthy.
Quote:The Good - TULANE
The Bad - LSU
THe Ugly - USM
Honorable mention - Navy
User avatar
Johnny Mac
Emerald Circle
Posts: 10572
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Floriduh

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Johnny Mac »

Poseidon wrote:Yeah they got hosed. Not sure why they reveiw any plays ever if that wasn't worthy.
the worst part is, the replay official in the booth should have immediately had the thought "hmm, that one looked in to me.. let me buzz down" without seeing a replay.. from what I understand, it was a PAC12 crew doing the game
Image
YOGWF - of all the Tulane fans in the world, we're the Tulaniest
User avatar
BC Wave
Emerald Circle
Posts: 10553
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Metairie

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by BC Wave »

If I may play devil’s advocate, had the play been reviewed and upheld, would it have been right for Ole Miss to have a chance to run a play?
User avatar
MattK
President's Circle
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by MattK »

Johnny Mac wrote:
Poseidon wrote:Yeah they got hosed. Not sure why they reveiw any plays ever if that wasn't worthy.
the worst part is, the replay official in the booth should have immediately had the thought "hmm, that one looked in to me.. let me buzz down" without seeing a replay.. from what I understand, it was a PAC12 crew doing the game
Did they have cameras on the goal line? If not, It may not get overturned anyway. And if the dude buzzed down and they don’t overturn the call, then Ole Miss doesn’t get to even try the next play because of the 10 second run off.

The guy on the goal line just needed to get the call right.
User avatar
Roller
Cornerstone
Posts: 36994
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: 9½° due east of The Tulane University of Louisiana

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Roller »

MattK wrote:
Johnny Mac wrote:
Poseidon wrote:Yeah they got hosed. Not sure why they reveiw any plays ever if that wasn't worthy.
the worst part is, the replay official in the booth should have immediately had the thought "hmm, that one looked in to me.. let me buzz down" without seeing a replay.. from what I understand, it was a PAC12 crew doing the game
Did they have cameras on the goal line? If not, It may not get overturned anyway. And if the dude buzzed down and they don’t overturn the call, then Ole Miss doesn’t get to even try the next play because of the 10 second run off.

The guy on the goal line just needed to get the call right.
Agreed!

Like I said at the time we got screwed over, the right thing for the ref to do when it is very close like that is to call it a TD. That would stop the clock and allow review. If the TD is overruled, then the clock could wind. In the Ole Miss case, it was impossible to get players to the line and run the play before time expired, so the refs could have simply ruled that "it was not a TD and time has expired." That way, nobody gets hurt.

Any time there is a play close enough that the ref's call could go either way, he should ALWAYS err on the side that does not prevent a review.

TUPF might have thoughts on this.

I'm not sure how or if the rule book addresses such situations, but personally, I'm not an absolutist when it comes to following the letter of the law. IMO, it's more important to get it right than it is to be a stickler for the rule book.
User avatar
gerryb323
Regent's Circle
Posts: 9660
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:18 am
Location: There's no place like home

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by gerryb323 »

BC Wave wrote:If I may play devil’s advocate, had the play been reviewed and upheld, would it have been right for Ole Miss to have a chance to run a play?
There would have been a 10 second runoff I think
Wandering around somewhere in a matchup zone
User avatar
Roller
Cornerstone
Posts: 36994
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: 9½° due east of The Tulane University of Louisiana

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Roller »

gerryb323 wrote:
BC Wave wrote:If I may play devil’s advocate, had the play been reviewed and upheld, would it have been right for Ole Miss to have a chance to run a play?
There would have been a 10 second runoff I think
I think so, too, but even if there were not, the referees have the power to rule that, had the correct call been made initially, the clock would have run out; they could declare the game over.
User avatar
gerryb323
Regent's Circle
Posts: 9660
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:18 am
Location: There's no place like home

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by gerryb323 »

Roller wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
BC Wave wrote:If I may play devil’s advocate, had the play been reviewed and upheld, would it have been right for Ole Miss to have a chance to run a play?
There would have been a 10 second runoff I think
I think so, too, but even if there were not, the referees have the power to rule that, had the correct call been made initially, the clock would have run out; they could declare the game over.
Except they did have time to get a play off!
Wandering around somewhere in a matchup zone
User avatar
Roller
Cornerstone
Posts: 36994
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: 9½° due east of The Tulane University of Louisiana

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Roller »

gerryb323 wrote:
Roller wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
BC Wave wrote:If I may play devil’s advocate, had the play been reviewed and upheld, would it have been right for Ole Miss to have a chance to run a play?
There would have been a 10 second runoff I think
I think so, too, but even if there were not, the referees have the power to rule that, had the correct call been made initially, the clock would have run out; they could declare the game over.
Except they did have time to get a play off!
You're right. I forgot about the failed sneak. So perhaps both teams could have benefited from "time to think." But the outcome would hstill have been more fair.

(and before anybody else jumps on that, I'll quote the wag: "Fair is where you go to eat cotton candy and corn dogs and step in cow manure.")
User avatar
TUPF
Emerald Circle
Posts: 21455
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:36 am
Location: Maryland Eastern Shore & sometimes Philly

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by TUPF »

Roller wrote:
MattK wrote:
Johnny Mac wrote:
Poseidon wrote:Yeah they got hosed. Not sure why they reveiw any plays ever if that wasn't worthy.
the worst part is, the replay official in the booth should have immediately had the thought "hmm, that one looked in to me.. let me buzz down" without seeing a replay.. from what I understand, it was a PAC12 crew doing the game
Did they have cameras on the goal line? If not, It may not get overturned anyway. And if the dude buzzed down and they don’t overturn the call, then Ole Miss doesn’t get to even try the next play because of the 10 second run off.

The guy on the goal line just needed to get the call right.
Agreed!

Like I said at the time we got screwed over, the right thing for the ref to do when it is very close like that is to call it a TD. That would stop the clock and allow review. If the TD is overruled, then the clock could wind. In the Ole Miss case, it was impossible to get players to the line and run the play before time expired, so the refs could have simply ruled that "it was not a TD and time has expired." That way, nobody gets hurt.

Any time there is a play close enough that the ref's call could go either way, he should ALWAYS err on the side that does not prevent a review.

TUPF might have thoughts on this.

I'm not sure how or if the rule book addresses such situations, but personally, I'm not an absolutist when it comes to following the letter of the law. IMO, it's more important to get it right than it is to be a stickler for the rule book.
I hear you, Roller, but football officials at all levels are taught the same thing: never, ever guess on a play, a score, a foul. If you have to convince yourself...it didn’t happen so keep your flag in your pocket and keep your arms at your side. There is no such thing as a “if it’s close let’s signal a score and then sort it out.” I can’t say what the replay booth officials should have done because that doesn’t exist in high school, but what you suggest is not in the mechanics manual at any level.

I didn’t watch the SMU game so cannot comment on specifics but the mechanism for officials are this: only the line judge and/or the head linesman signal a score on a play near the goal line unless it’s really obvious (say a safety signaled by the white hat). If it’s close to the goal line they will look at each other before signaling. Inside the 5 yard line both the line judge and the head linesman go to the goal line and straddle it at the snap, and both crash in for plays inside the hash marks. Other officials can signal that they definitely saw the ball cross the goal line before the runner was down by raising hand to the chest to signal to the line officials, but never raise arms to signal a TD. I hear all the discussions about goal line cameras which are great until they are shielded by a scrum on the field.
Fan since 1974 living in Phelps seeing the upper bowl of Tulane Stadium
User avatar
Poseidon
Regent's Circle
Posts: 5360
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Poseidon »

Roller that Philosophy works at all levels that don't have video reviews. The ultimate goal is to get the game ruled correct. That is why they do photo finishes in horse racing. You don't make a call that disallows the use of a "photo finish."
Quote:The Good - TULANE
The Bad - LSU
THe Ugly - USM
Honorable mention - Navy
User avatar
Cheerleader
Coach Level
Posts: 2444
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:22 am
Location: Destin, FL

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Cheerleader »

I expect the Ole Miss boards are blowing up over this...
User avatar
Roller
Cornerstone
Posts: 36994
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: 9½° due east of The Tulane University of Louisiana

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Roller »

TUPF wrote:...If you have to convince yourself...it didn’t happen so keep your flag in your pocket and keep your arms at your side. ...
Well, if there's no replay, that makes perfect sense. But when there is a possibility of a definitive replay, that approach eliminates the opportunity to "get it right." In particular, I think it's the wrong approach in goalline plays in the final seconds.
User avatar
gerryb323
Regent's Circle
Posts: 9660
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:18 am
Location: There's no place like home

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by gerryb323 »

Roller wrote:
TUPF wrote:...If you have to convince yourself...it didn’t happen so keep your flag in your pocket and keep your arms at your side. ...
Well, if there's no replay, that makes perfect sense. But when there is a possibility of a definitive replay, that approach eliminates the opportunity to "get it right." In particular, I think it's the wrong approach in goalline plays in the final seconds.
I think if the referee isn't sure, he should err on the side that allows a review. However, with the replay standard being such as it is, borderline calls often stand as called. I'd bet the refs think they get the calls right most of the time and don't need to be reviewed
Wandering around somewhere in a matchup zone
User avatar
MattK
President's Circle
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by MattK »

https://mobile.twitter.com/Emilnem/stat ... 4950375424

Video from twitter that shows it better than the tv view did.
User avatar
OGSB
Emerald Circle
Posts: 18794
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by OGSB »

Pac 12 believes their officials handled it properly:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb ... spartanntp
Victory is never permanent
User avatar
PeteRasche
Cornerstone
Posts: 30922
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:52 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by PeteRasche »

MattK wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Emilnem/stat ... 4950375424

Video from twitter that shows it better than the tv view did.
Doesn't look like the ball ever crossed the goal line until after the guy landed and rolled.
User avatar
long green
Cornerstone
Posts: 29126
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:34 am
Location: New Orleans

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by long green »

PeteRasche wrote:
MattK wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Emilnem/stat ... 4950375424

Video from twitter that shows it better than the tv view did.
Doesn't look like the ball ever crossed the goal line until after the guy landed and rolled.
I agree and I was watching it live.
And may our enemies, if they exist, be unconscious of our purpose. - From The Lady Vanishes
User avatar
Poseidon
Regent's Circle
Posts: 5360
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Poseidon »

long green wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
MattK wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Emilnem/stat ... 4950375424

Video from twitter that shows it better than the tv view did.
Doesn't look like the ball ever crossed the goal line until after the guy landed and rolled.
I agree and I was watching it live.
Either way the fact that it wasn't reviewed was the absolute worst part.
Quote:The Good - TULANE
The Bad - LSU
THe Ugly - USM
Honorable mention - Navy
User avatar
Private Joker
Coach Level
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:50 pm
Location: Bainbridge Island USA

Re: Ole Miss gets the "SMU screw job"

Post by Private Joker »

I don't know what you could reasonably do here. To stop the clock to review it gives Ole Miss a huge break to set up the final play in a measured way rather than having to rush it. Given the circumstances it seems it was handled as well as it could have.
Post Reply