2020 Football Season

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Baywave1
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Baywave1 »

PeteRasche wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:28 am
The comorbidities stat is a red herring.
No it's not. How many seriously sick and/or elderly continue to die from pneumonia (which is often listed on the death certificate) when real reason they are at death's door is old age aggravated by lung cancer or diabetes caused by obesity or whatever? Once you reach maturity (and really any age), minimizing weight issues is still the best single health advice any of us can receive other than quitting smoking.

I will date myself here. But medically insensitive phrase popular decades ago was "Pneumonia. Old man's best friend" when it saved a dear relative from having a long debilitating death march from pancreatic cancer or whatever.

Comorbidities matter and that's why I've had no complaint about absolute lockdown of nursing homes. It's worked to save many of my relatives and friends until we have a vaccine. That's a cost-benefit I agree with. I do not agree with locking down everything else including schools and "non-essential" businesses and, yes, college football to "save" folks who have much lower risk factors.

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by gerryb323 »

Baywave1 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:43 am
PeteRasche wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:28 am
The comorbidities stat is a red herring.
No it's not. How many seriously sick and/or elderly continue to die from pneumonia (which is often listed on the death certificate) when real reason they are at death's door is old age aggravated by lung cancer or diabetes caused by obesity or whatever? Once you reach maturity (and really any age), minimizing weight issues is still the best single health advice any of us can receive other than quitting smoking.

I will date myself here. But medically insensitive phrase popular decades ago was "Pneumonia. Old man's best friend" when it saved a dear relative from having a long debilitating death march from pancreatic cancer or whatever.

Comorbidities matter and that's why I've had no complaint about absolute lockdown of nursing homes. It's worked to save many of my relatives and friends until we have a vaccine. That's a cost-benefit I agree with. I do not agree with locking down everything else including schools and "non-essential" businesses and, yes, college football to "save" folks who have much lower risk factors.
Amazing that some people don't get that it's not the school kids and college kids, it's the people they come in contact with and the people those people come in contact with
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Baywave1
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Baywave1 »

I get it. I'm part of the elderly group that following that logic should avoid all young people. It's my choice to associate or disassociate and that's what freedom is about.

One more point: all the folks making the decisions to lockdown or open have not missed a single paycheck. They are making others bear that cost. (Did you like the Philly mayor going to Maryland to dine indoors while banning it on his own turf for "public safety?")

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by windywave »

Baywave1 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:53 am
I get it. I'm part of the elderly group that following that logic should avoid all young people. It's my choice to associate or disassociate and that's what freedom is about.

One more point: all the folks making the decisions to lockdown or open have not missed a single paycheck. They are making others bear that cost. (Did you like the Philly mayor going to Maryland to dine indoors while banning it on his own turf for "public safety?")
You're conflating two different things. The lockdown here is effectively over since June except bars. The objection I have, besides the inability to do simple math, is the asshattery of not wearing masks etc. and not understanding the ramifications of being said asshat.
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PeteRasche
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by PeteRasche »

Baywave1 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:43 am
PeteRasche wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:28 am
The comorbidities stat is a red herring.
No it's not. How many seriously sick and/or elderly continue to die from pneumonia (which is often listed on the death certificate) when real reason they are at death's door is old age aggravated by lung cancer or diabetes caused by obesity or whatever? Once you reach maturity (and really any age), minimizing weight issues is still the best single health advice any of us can receive other than quitting smoking.

I will date myself here. But medically insensitive phrase popular decades ago was "Pneumonia. Old man's best friend" when it saved a dear relative from having a long debilitating death march from pancreatic cancer or whatever.

Comorbidities matter and that's why I've had no complaint about absolute lockdown of nursing homes. It's worked to save many of my relatives and friends until we have a vaccine. That's a cost-benefit I agree with. I do not agree with locking down everything else including schools and "non-essential" businesses and, yes, college football to "save" folks who have much lower risk factors.
That's the problem with this whole thing. Everyone (on both sides) is cherry-picking the facts and the quotes they want to support their personal opinion. And the government is such a train wreck (not even pointing at the current administration but just "the whole of government" that is getting exposed by this situation) that no one can trust the stats from anywhere anyway, no matter which side you are on. So people look around for the stats they want and quote those. Meanwhile, various groups (even PACs) on both sides spend money to create propaganda videos and posts to go viral, just hoping to rally more people to their side for purely political reasons.

Anyone who has looked at any legit scientific description of what we actually do know - not stats of deaths or recoveries but actual science of how viruses behave - knows that you don't need to wear a mask in a car by yourself, or walking down the street by yourself alone. I'm on the mask side of this whole thing and I laugh at people who do that. What, are you afraid to give COVID to your steering wheel or the neighbor's tree?

I trust the people I personally know in the medical profession - specifically those in the pulmonary, respiratory, and virology/epidemiology fields - and their personal friends and colleagues from whom they share info. I don't trust anything I find in any mainstream media, from CNN to Fox and anywhere in between. And without exception, all of the people I know in applicable medical fields agree that this is a bigger deal than half the country wants to admit, that the politicizing of this issue is disgusting, and that the USA's stubborn insistence on freedom and political views will keep us fighting this battle for years (not months).

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by CT Wave »

Regarding comorbidities, about 130,000 of our deaths are of people over the Full Retirement Age of 65. Those folks are not going to live another 30+ years with or without Covid virus.

As a threadjack, I recently read of a medical research study on what predicts survival among our elderly. Two of the top four were "high level of social interaction" and "a flu shot". Exercising, losing weight, and stop drinking -- not so much. Just noting that our lockdowns have decreased the level of social interaction, especially for those in assisted living facilities.
"You're not here on scholarship to lose. I didn't recruit you to lose. Losing is abnormal; losing is unusual; losing is unacceptable. That's not what we're here for."
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by ml wave »

Baywave1 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:43 am
PeteRasche wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:28 am
The comorbidities stat is a red herring.
No it's not. How many seriously sick and/or elderly continue to die from pneumonia (which is often listed on the death certificate) when real reason they are at death's door is old age aggravated by lung cancer or diabetes caused by obesity or whatever? Once you reach maturity (and really any age), minimizing weight issues is still the best single health advice any of us can receive other than quitting smoking.

I will date myself here. But medically insensitive phrase popular decades ago was "Pneumonia. Old man's best friend" when it saved a dear relative from having a long debilitating death march from pancreatic cancer or whatever.

Comorbidities matter and that's why I've had no complaint about absolute lockdown of nursing homes. It's worked to save many of my relatives and friends until we have a vaccine. That's a cost-benefit I agree with. I do not agree with locking down everything else including schools and "non-essential" businesses and, yes, college football to "save" folks who have much lower risk factors.
No, they don't matter. Look up the excess deaths because the comorbidities are already factored into the baseline.

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by ml wave »

Baywave1 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:53 am
I get it. I'm part of the elderly group that following that logic should avoid all young people. It's my choice to associate or disassociate and that's what freedom is about.

One more point: all the folks making the decisions to lockdown or open have not missed a single paycheck. They are making others bear that cost. (Did you like the Philly mayor going to Maryland to dine indoors while banning it on his own turf for "public safety?")
You know, true freedom has been achieved by basically every other wealthy country in the world while we still sit around and argue about stupid stuff. An astounding indictment of our educational system.

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by ml wave »

CT Wave wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm
Regarding comorbidities, about 130,000 of our deaths are of people over the Full Retirement Age of 65. Those folks are not going to live another 30+ years with or without Covid virus.

As a threadjack, I recently read of a medical research study on what predicts survival among our elderly. Two of the top four were "high level of social interaction" and "a flu shot". Exercising, losing weight, and stop drinking -- not so much. Just noting that our lockdowns have decreased the level of social interaction, especially for those in assisted living facilities.
Wait, how long is someone supposed to live in order for their death to matter?

By the way, let's subtract out the 130k deaths that you mentioned...that would leave us with ~60k deaths of people under age 65 (FRA is 67+ now but that's a different story). So, just looking at our under 65 population compared to other countries full population, we'd have the 4th highest deaths in the world (behind Brazil and, narrowly, India and Mexico). Job well done there!

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tulaneoutlaw
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

If you're already sick or old, I guess eff you right? I mean you probably weren't going to live much longer anyway so what's the big deal?

The car fatalities comparison is like apples to asteroids. When there's a car fatality, the number of people at risk is generally in single digits and is clearly limited to those in the immediate vicinity. The risk of disease spread is exponential. It's a completely different level of risk, multiplied by the unknown aspects of covid.

There's no such thing as zero risk, just riskier and less risky. Arguing specific measures makes sense. Wearing a mask inside vs. outside is a great example of that. Wearing a mask, at least some of the time in public as a risk limiter really isn't. But I get lost when we start to rationalize people dying with "They were already sick/old" and bad examples like "driving is more dangerous!"

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by TUPF »

Rotorooter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:46 am
TUPF wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:12 am
It’s all academic until someone in your family dies. And to use that driving your car example for you non BMW drivers, we buckle up even though we don’t expect to die on the way to work and play. None of us get out of here alive. I’d just rather have a say if at all possible.

I’ve given up trying to reason with the folks who have toddler tantrums about their rights being infringed. Just give me a wide berth when you do so.
I really do not understand your passive/aggressive-ism. You feel endangered, take the necessary precautions you need to feel safe. So do I. I may feel that not wearing a mask in the fresh air is a prudent, calculated risk that I am willing to take, you may not. (I mean, if you can't breathe the air, you're f**cked anyway). Same is true with wearing a mask while you're driving in your car--you might, I don't. I keep distance, I wear a mask indoors, particularly in a crowded place, cannot really go to concerts or other activities. You feel differently--GREAT FOR YOU!! I don't have it, do everything I can not to get it, and do prudent things like personal hygiene not to give it out. If I get it, I quarantine for 14 days. Oh, and by the way, people in my family ARE going to die, it just depends on when and what from.

Given the numbers, a valid argument can be made that it is not worth shutting down an entire economy or shutting down one's life until a vaccine comes--if it ever does. There are prudent ways to go about your life while still being careful. There are drugs to take if you get it. Sorry you disagree, then stay at home. Lock 'er down. Stay six feet away. Embrace the suck. Call us stupid and feel better. Whatever.
We agree on more things than not. I’ve taken more risks in life than most and made peace with death at a young age through adulthood. I’ve read the evolving COVID-19 science, not relied on politicians with wild guesses about cures, and have adjusted my own behaviors as more has become known. Science evolves.

In January when I read that COVID was coming I had long discussions with my good friend visiting from Australia whose son and family lived in Shanghai about the coming storm. In February I started treating anything my family did as if there had been a cracked open nuclear warhead with rampant plutonium surface and air contamination. I set up a containment area in my garage for anything coming in the house—groceries, packages, mail. At the time I was surprised that masks weren’t recommended because I was thinking of my own training as a nuclear engineer (we would wear what we called the Big Bird suits, with respirators like in the movies, shower and scrub down, with radiac scans), a common bitch now by anti-maskers saying the medical folks changed their tune, which they did, but they didn’t know then what they know now.

As we learned more about aerosol spread and almost no surface contamination problems, especially with the Washington state incident caused by one church’s choir practice, my own stance changed. Aerosol is the key. Now it was just a case of what is a reasonable way to not be infected. Again using my nuclear engineering experience along with having handled nuclear weapons, the key mantra for protection is: time—distance—shielding. Time of exposure means the less the better. Am I going to get COVID just passing momentarily by someone who is infected? Probably a minuscule chance. Distance from someone who is infected if it’s anything like radiological contamination is related to distance squared. There is nothing magic about 6 feet other than some cough distance studies says that’s a reasonable distance for the expelled aerosol to die out. I’ve even seen some things that show 9 feet is better if you are around loud talkers or singers. Shielding—block the bad stuff. For COVID it’s not like we have to have an inch of lead to protect us, a cotton mask with a few folds is good enough.

I only wear a mask indoors. In Maryland it’s required. When I see folks driving with a mask on I snicker because it tells me they have no sense of the real risk and certainly don’t understand the science. I wear a mask indoors to protect me but as importantly to protect others should I be a carrier. When I see the Walmart folks with masks around their chin I just avoid them. When I volunteer weekly as a pony patrol at the local national seashore I keep a mask with me should visitors from everywhere approach me too close, or just step back. We have happy hours with neighbors periodically outside In our driveways and sometimes even dinners, spaced reasonably, without masks. We have outdoor fans to keep the air moving. We have visited no indoor restaurants or bars since this all started.

My football association will start officiating In October because some high schools are running modified scrimmages, setting up on the 40 yard line and running a series of downs. We will be masked and use hand held electronic whistles.

So, you see we are closer in practices than not. I just don’t want some bug-eyed science denier around me taking unnecessary liberties in the name of being done with COVID which may impact me and by connection, others I love.
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CT Wave
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by CT Wave »

Eminently reasonable summary, TUPF, thank you!
"You're not here on scholarship to lose. I didn't recruit you to lose. Losing is abnormal; losing is unusual; losing is unacceptable. That's not what we're here for."
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wave-em in
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by wave-em in »

The reason masks weren't advised for the general public earlier were mainly due to supply reasons.

In February, I tried to obtain a box of N95 from Henry Schein (my medical supply company). I couldn't get any on order. I even called 3M and was told that most of their supply was going overseas but they would be ramping up production, "soon." It wasn't until about a month ago that I could get a couple boxes ordered as an individual practitioner.

SO, due to the extremely poor preparation from the current administration to build an adequate stockpile of PPE (which they 3 YEARS to do so), they had to put out less than satisfactory guidance for the general public so there would be availability for hospitals. Even then, for a couple months, hospital staff were inadequately supplied and multiple healthcare workers sacrificed their lives as a result.

Secondly, the tRump admin did not invoke the defense production act immediately. IF they had, then manufacturers would have had to halt the shipping of PPE overseas so that our AMERICAN healthcare workers and general population would have been able to access appropriate safety equipment and the supply would have ramped up much quicker. I guarantee you that had the supply been there, the CDC guidance for individual mask wearing would have been issued much sooner.

My guess is that tRump admin wouldn't openly support masks earlier because they knew there was a woefully inadequate supply for which they would be blamed. The fact that the "anti-masker" subgroup developed was probably just a welcomed happenstance that they seized upon to stroke the base.
Last edited by wave-em in on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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wave-em in
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by wave-em in »

where's the "DELETE" tab?

Please consider moving the "EDIT" tab further away from the "Quote" tab.
Last edited by wave-em in on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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wave-em in
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by wave-em in »

nm

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Rotorooter
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Rotorooter »

windywave wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:36 am
Rotorooter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:46 am
TUPF wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:12 am
It’s all academic until someone in your family dies. And to use that driving your car example for you non BMW drivers, we buckle up even though we don’t expect to die on the way to work and play. None of us get out of here alive. I’d just rather have a say if at all possible.

I’ve given up trying to reason with the folks who have toddler tantrums about their rights being infringed. Just give me a wide berth when you do so.
Given the numbers, a valid argument can be made that it is not worth shutting down an entire economy or shutting down one's life until a vaccine comes--if it ever does.
Your numbers are frick trash though, that's the point.
Dude, they are not MY numbers, they are the CDC's most recent DATA. You can interpret the data as you want. Even using 160K as the "true" Covid deaths, we're still not talking about 1% of the populace. I also would point to the graphs of deaths and how they are dropping precipitously across all age groups. We were supposed to have 2M dead by this time, according to initial theories. Hasn't happened. We've gone from "let's flatten the curve" to "let's keep anyone from dying," which is a statistical impossibility. Well, we flattened the curve and here we are.
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Poseidon »

wave-em in wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:36 pm
The reason masks weren't advised for the general public earlier were mainly due to supply reasons.

In February, I tried to obtain a box of N95 from Henry Schein (my medical supply company). I couldn't get any on order. I even called 3M and was told that most of their supply was going overseas but they would be ramping up production, "soon." It wasn't until about a month ago that I could get a couple boxes ordered as an individual practitioner.

SO, due to the extremely poor preparation from the current administration to build an adequate stockpile of PPE (which they 3 YEARS to do so), they had to put out less than satisfactory guidance for the general public so there would be availability for hospitals. Even then, for a couple months, hospital staff were inadequately supplied and multiple healthcare workers sacrificed their lives as a result.

Secondly, the tRump admin did not invoke the defense production act immediately. IF they had, then manufacturers would have had to halt the shipping of PPE overseas so that our AMERICAN healthcare workers and general population would have been able to access appropriate safety equipment and the supply would have ramped up much quicker. I guarantee you that had the supply been there, the CDC guidance for individual mask wearing would have been issued much sooner.

My guess is that tRump admin wouldn't openly support masks earlier because they knew there was a woefully inadequate supply for which they would be blamed. The fact that the "anti-masker" subgroup developed was probably just a welcomed happenstance that they seized upon to stroke the base.
You reference Trump, but what were are really talking about is the NIH's incompetence. Whether Trump or Clinton, or whoever else was in the white house it would have gone down the basically the same way because competence or mission of the NIH was so far away from any party's platform it would just operate as a quasi-separate institution(still political, but not in the D v R way other institutions are) as it has is the past. Trump shouldn't get much credit or blame. This is an institutional failure.
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by gerryb323 »

Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm
wave-em in wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:36 pm
The reason masks weren't advised for the general public earlier were mainly due to supply reasons.

In February, I tried to obtain a box of N95 from Henry Schein (my medical supply company). I couldn't get any on order. I even called 3M and was told that most of their supply was going overseas but they would be ramping up production, "soon." It wasn't until about a month ago that I could get a couple boxes ordered as an individual practitioner.

SO, due to the extremely poor preparation from the current administration to build an adequate stockpile of PPE (which they 3 YEARS to do so), they had to put out less than satisfactory guidance for the general public so there would be availability for hospitals. Even then, for a couple months, hospital staff were inadequately supplied and multiple healthcare workers sacrificed their lives as a result.

Secondly, the tRump admin did not invoke the defense production act immediately. IF they had, then manufacturers would have had to halt the shipping of PPE overseas so that our AMERICAN healthcare workers and general population would have been able to access appropriate safety equipment and the supply would have ramped up much quicker. I guarantee you that had the supply been there, the CDC guidance for individual mask wearing would have been issued much sooner.

My guess is that tRump admin wouldn't openly support masks earlier because they knew there was a woefully inadequate supply for which they would be blamed. The fact that the "anti-masker" subgroup developed was probably just a welcomed happenstance that they seized upon to stroke the base.
You reference Trump, but what were are really talking about is the NIH's incompetence. Whether Trump or Clinton, or whoever else was in the white house it would have gone down the basically the same way because competence or mission of the NIH was so far away from any party's platform it would just operate as a quasi-separate institution(still political, but not in the D v R way other institutions are) as it has is the past. Trump shouldn't get much credit or blame. This is an institutional failure.
LOL
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by TUPF »

Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm
Trump shouldn't get much credit or blame. This is an institutional failure.
I respectfully disagree. It is a truism that all the easy problems have already been solved by the time one arrives in the Oval Office. This is true no matter who is in the hot seat so problem solving at the presidential level must rely on the character of the individual to muster resources, to achieve consensus, to step up and and unequivocally say “I’m the man/woman in charge” like any neophyte military officer is taught. It’s the job. What this president has done in downplaying it’s severity from the start, in stating “I take no responsibility”, in undercutting his experts, in failing to muster production acts which are available under law, in falling prey to any treatment that pops up from whatever talking head syncophant who strokes his ego, is a failure of the highest order. This virus would have tried the most competent among us. Instead we have a carnival barker.
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

The caution against masks early on was a disgrace. Plenty of evidence pointed to them being a reasonable defense back in March/April. Encouraging mask wearing would've encouraged suppliers in the market to produce more. It also ignored that people can produce effective masks on their own at home out of basically free materials. So now the CDC/Who have lost all credibility and made the crisis worse.

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Rotorooter »

TUPF wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:18 pm
Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm
Trump shouldn't get much credit or blame. This is an institutional failure.
I respectfully disagree. It is a truism that all the easy problems have already been solved by the time one arrives in the Oval Office. This is true no matter who is in the hot seat so problem solving at the presidential level must rely on the character of the individual to muster resources, to achieve consensus, to step up and and unequivocally say “I’m the man/woman in charge” like any neophyte military officer is taught. It’s the job. What this president has done in downplaying it’s severity from the start, in stating “I take no responsibility”, in undercutting his experts, in failing to muster production acts which are available under law, in falling prey to any treatment that pops up from whatever talking head syncophant who strokes his ego, is a failure of the highest order. This virus would have tried the most competent among us. Instead we have a carnival barker.
WOW, just wow, this is not a violation of the rules?! We could ALL go on a political rant if this is allowed. Geez.

Let's not forget that Bush caused Katrina, Kennedy wanted Cuba to be communist, Obama is not an American and Nixon was dropped onto the earth by Martians.
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by gerryb323 »

Rotorooter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:48 pm
TUPF wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:18 pm
Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm
Trump shouldn't get much credit or blame. This is an institutional failure.
I respectfully disagree. It is a truism that all the easy problems have already been solved by the time one arrives in the Oval Office. This is true no matter who is in the hot seat so problem solving at the presidential level must rely on the character of the individual to muster resources, to achieve consensus, to step up and and unequivocally say “I’m the man/woman in charge” like any neophyte military officer is taught. It’s the job. What this president has done in downplaying it’s severity from the start, in stating “I take no responsibility”, in undercutting his experts, in failing to muster production acts which are available under law, in falling prey to any treatment that pops up from whatever talking head syncophant who strokes his ego, is a failure of the highest order. This virus would have tried the most competent among us. Instead we have a carnival barker.
WOW, just wow, this is not a violation of the rules?! We could ALL go on a political rant if this is allowed. Geez.

Let's not forget that Bush caused Katrina, Kennedy wanted Cuba to be communist, Obama is not an American and Nixon was dropped onto the earth by Martians.
Except what TUPF said is true
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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Wavefan »

I read the last two pages thinking I might actually get some information on the 2020 Tulane football season.

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by Yankeewave »

I, for one, would like to know if Lindsey Scott wears a mask

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Re: 2020 Football Season

Post by windywave »

Rotorooter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:21 pm
windywave wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:36 am
Rotorooter wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:46 am
TUPF wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:12 am
It’s all academic until someone in your family dies. And to use that driving your car example for you non BMW drivers, we buckle up even though we don’t expect to die on the way to work and play. None of us get out of here alive. I’d just rather have a say if at all possible.

I’ve given up trying to reason with the folks who have toddler tantrums about their rights being infringed. Just give me a wide berth when you do so.
Given the numbers, a valid argument can be made that it is not worth shutting down an entire economy or shutting down one's life until a vaccine comes--if it ever does.
Your numbers are frick trash though, that's the point.
Dude, they are not MY numbers, they are the CDC's most recent DATA. You can interpret the data as you want. Even using 160K as the "true" Covid deaths, we're still not talking about 1% of the populace. I also would point to the graphs of deaths and how they are dropping precipitously across all age groups. We were supposed to have 2M dead by this time, according to initial theories. Hasn't happened. We've gone from "let's flatten the curve" to "let's keep anyone from dying," which is a statistical impossibility. Well, we flattened the curve and here we are.
72,527, if you believe the CDC, or .022% of the population (see above).

That is the garbage number I'm talking about. I literally do math and statistics for a living.

I'm frick aware they are the CDC numbers because I used them.

Why is the graph going down?
Using big words is not a personal attack
#cousins don't count

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