Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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long green
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Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by long green »

We have a Muschamp thread but now that Derek Mason has been let go I'm calling it a Carousel.

Here's a Mark Schlabach article about Mason's firing that mentions Willie Fritz along with twelve other guys. The silliest inclusion of a name has to be Tom Allen of Indiana, who already coaches at a Vandy and has near perfect job security there. This article was mentioned by Baywave in another thread.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 8-campaign
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by PeteRasche »

Not an opening yet but since the annual carousel is for postulation, I saw an article yesterday saying there's a strong push for Michigan to cut the cord with Harbaugh and hire Iowa State's coach. Regardless, it would surprise me if Harbaugh is coaching UM next year.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by Baywave1 »

If OSU blitzes Michigan then I can't see Harbaugh surviving. He may be the most high maintenance coach in an industry full of prima donnas. Win and it's tolerated and even occasionally embraced. Lose and it just makes your plank walking that much faster.

After Miles disaster at KU, I would be astounded if Vandy hires an elder coach with a strong resume (like say Jeff Fisher or even Fritz.) But then what about Mac Brown at UNC...

Vandy has never won an SEC football championship. It did win a couple a century ago in original Southern Conference but nothing since. Because of the pay and notoriety, there will be a line a mile long for the job but I think Tulane is in the CFP before Vandy football wins SEC. Good luck to the Vandy hire to climb that mountain.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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Fisher would be a solid choice if he wanted it. You're nearly guaranteed to last out your first contract and if you do anything positive you get a new deal. Fritz and some others carry buyouts with them. An old coach they could try and could better afford would be Bohl from Wyoming.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by PeteRasche »

Baywave1 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:18 pm If OSU blitzes Michigan then I can't see Harbaugh surviving.
I can't see them not blowing UM out. Even in a rivalry game where you often "throw out the records", the gap this year is tremendous.
Baywave1 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:18 pm He may be the most high maintenance coach in an industry full of prima donnas. Win and it's tolerated and even occasionally embraced. Lose and it just makes your plank walking that much faster.
Interestingly Michigan hired two guys out of three about whom you could say this same thing (RR and JH) and neither worked out.

Seems weird to say but Michigan is approaching - if they aren't there already - a situation where they've been "meh or worse" for so long that their name doesn't necessarily connote "annual national power" the way it used to with today's recruits. They finished tied for 1st in 2018 (lots of programs occasionally have a good year), but beyond that they've not finished better than 3rd in the Big 10 since today's recruits were 10 years old, and only finished the year ranked in 6 of the last 12 years, and within that only once in the top 10 (10th in 2016). Their last "national power-esque" years were four coaches ago (Lloyd Carr) in the early-to-mid-2000s, when today's recruits were less than 5 years old. They always get massive pub from ESPN (Desmond Howard being on CFGD helps, I'm sure), but in the past decade it's probably been more talk about their coaches (RR/JH) than their on-field performance. Meanwhile their bitter rival to the south could hire one of us as coach and still bring in a top-5 recruiting class just on name alone. And as I type this, it occurs that this is exactly the reason why they feel the need to have a big-name "buzzworthy" hire that can bring in hot recruits immediately on name alone, because they see this reputation slipping away and don't have the time for a young guy to "build it back".
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by LawGreenie »

Does the Ford family give all of Michigan a soft landing and let Harbaugh "leave" UM for the Lions? Does that let Matt Campbell go to Ann Arbor, or does he take the Jets or Bears job?

South Carolina has to hire the guy at Coastal, right?
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by long green »

The current front runner is said to be Shane Beamer, who recently interviewed. I'm always skeptical of the candidate who has the vocal support of former players and for this job at this time that's Beamer. Billy Napier, who I'd hire on the spot if I were them, is supposed to interview this week.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by Baywave1 »

Pete, Good point about RR. Since he had no Big Blue pedigree and no couch burning to celebrate, they cleared out him and the maintenance cost quickly.

OK since we are spitballing here and UM has the budget (but I'm not sure of the will though again this is spitballing), what JImbo Fisher is waiting to go to UM? Only one I can think of is Fickell. But if UC sneaks into CFP, I don't see him leaving until he loses. I guess recruiting is shot anyway.

You folks better informed than me have already shot Fickell to UM down but who can UM get that would wow their fans like Jimbo did for the Aggies? Urban Meyer? Fitzgerald at Northwestern? Pete Carroll? (As I said I'm spitballing.)

Reading Pete's factual summary, all I could think of is next guy at UM is setting himself up to be the next Scott Frost/UN.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by SlidellWave »

PeteRasche wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:01 pm
Baywave1 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:18 pm If OSU blitzes Michigan then I can't see Harbaugh surviving.
I can't see them not blowing UM out. Even in a rivalry game where you often "throw out the records", the gap this year is tremendous.
Baywave1 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:18 pm He may be the most high maintenance coach in an industry full of prima donnas. Win and it's tolerated and even occasionally embraced. Lose and it just makes your plank walking that much faster.
Interestingly Michigan hired two guys out of three about whom you could say this same thing (RR and JH) and neither worked out.

Seems weird to say but Michigan is approaching - if they aren't there already - a situation where they've been "meh or worse" for so long that their name doesn't necessarily connote "annual national power" the way it used to with today's recruits. They finished tied for 1st in 2018 (lots of programs occasionally have a good year), but beyond that they've not finished better than 3rd in the Big 10 since today's recruits were 10 years old, and only finished the year ranked in 6 of the last 12 years, and within that only once in the top 10 (10th in 2016). Their last "national power-esque" years were four coaches ago (Lloyd Carr) in the early-to-mid-2000s, when today's recruits were less than 5 years old. They always get massive pub from ESPN (Desmond Howard being on CFGD helps, I'm sure), but in the past decade it's probably been more talk about their coaches (RR/JH) than their on-field performance. Meanwhile their bitter rival to the south could hire one of us as coach and still bring in a top-5 recruiting class just on name alone. And as I type this, it occurs that this is exactly the reason why they feel the need to have a big-name "buzzworthy" hire that can bring in hot recruits immediately on name alone, because they see this reputation slipping away and don't have the time for a young guy to "build it back".

Michigan is the Tennessee of the Big Ten these days.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by SlidellWave »

long green wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:00 pm Fisher would be a solid choice if he wanted it. You're nearly guaranteed to last out your first contract and if you do anything positive you get a new deal. Fritz and some others carry buyouts with them. An old coach they could try and could better afford would be Bohl from Wyoming.
Fisher is a bad hire for any team on any level. He is so overrated as a head coach. How he survives so long with at best mediocre records is astonishing. 22 years in the NFL and 6 winning seasons (none since 2008). Also has no college experience.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by long green »

He is a solid choice for Vanderbilt. He'd be a bad choice for any other SEC school and any AAC program for that matter. What you described in his record is what Vandy has been. They could change that if they hired a prodigy and the prodigy stayed put.

The best name on that list that they could hire is the coach at Buffalo.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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long green wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:56 am He is a solid choice for Vanderbilt. He'd be a bad choice for any other SEC school and any AAC program for that matter. What you described in his record is what Vandy has been. They could change that if they hired a prodigy and the prodigy stayed put.

The best name on that list that they could hire is the coach at Buffalo.
You're right about Buffalo guy. Meanwhile The Athletic spitballer said Vandy should look at Princeton coach! I guess Teevens isn't moving....
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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Be prepared to lose for what you might get
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by WaveProf »

He's right. It doesn't make sense for many P5 schools. It only borderline made sense at Georgia Tech to begin with, and over time when they realized the ceiling it didn't. The ceiling would even more clearly rule out the vast majority of P5. But Vandy is THE example of where it does make sense. Would there be a ceiling? Sure. But higher than the one they have now.

It could work or it could burn gloriously disastrous, but Vandy is disastrous most of the time anyway. They've tried everything else, this is the best idea I've read for them in a while.
Last edited by WaveProf on Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by Rotorooter »

Personally, any moves about coaches in this season are not really prudent. A lot this season depended upon how teams dealt with off-field issues regarding C-19, not necessarily football issues. Given the lack of missed playing time, Fritz and Tulane are to be commended as to how they managed COVID. The other guys and institutions, not so much. I guess you could say that a coach is responsible for managing that, but if he does not have the right advice or support from the admins., then he is kind of stuck. In Harbaugh's case, there was also the B10 stopping and starting, which fouled things up for everyone in that conference. In short, there are a lot more variables that translate into performance than the usual "our coach sucks" narrative. That said, Harbaugh seems to wear out his welcome in 4 years everywhere he goes.

Michigan has bigger issues than Harbaugh. Carr was fading when he left; RR was at his high point when hired, but could not succeed there; Brady Hoke was well thought of when hired, he flamed out as well; now Harbaugh. What is the one constant here? The institution of UM football and its boosters. They're in trouble, and they will have to find a guy similar to what Brian Kelly has done at ND after several high-profile failures there. Good luck to them.

As for Vandy, they are not hiring Fritz. They will try to repeat the James Franklin hire. Fritz is too old in that scenario and, if he finishes 5-6 this season, has underwhelmed in doing so. Come to think of it, he has underwhelmed if he goes 6-5. Besides, he would be crazy to take it, especially the mountain to climb there and the job security here. At best, they will get a coordinator from a competing SEC school who can recruit.

Another interesting one to watch is Tom Hermann at Texas. I mean, how do you NOT win at Texas?! Personally, I think they will hang onto him for one more season, but he will have to win the B12 in 2021 to save his bacon. Jimbo Fisher is going nowhere and his resurgence has probably done more to hurt Herman than anything else. Plus, Jimbo recruits for the SEC, which appeals to high-end recruits for whatever reason.

As always, get your popcorn.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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I will offer up the name of Jack Curtis for the Vanderbilt position. An excellent DC in a competitive conference. He would be a great hire for them (and us). And only if he takes his Defensive Backs coach with him.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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WaveProf wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:00 am
He's right. It doesn't make sense for many P5 schools. It only borderline made sense at Georgia Tech to begin with, and over time when they realized the ceiling it didn't. The ceiling would even more clearly rule out the vast majority of P5. But Vandy is THE example of where it does make sense. Would there be a ceiling? Sure. But higher than the one they have now.

It could work or it could burn gloriously disastrous, but Vandy is disastrous most of the time anyway. They've tried everything else, this is the best idea I've read for them in a while.

Niumatalolo would be a good hire. So would Troy Calhoun. Not Jeff Monken, though. Todd Monken would be a fair choice for them.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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Charlie Strong.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by PeteRasche »

The fault of the writer's idea about Vandy going to the Option is that he simultaneously says Vandy can't get top recruits while pushing a system that absolutely requires a stud recruit at QB in order to succeed at any sort of relatively high level. From GT's best years in the late 90s when they won the ACC (Joe Hamilton) to Navy's nice run in the past few years (Malcolm Perry), all the way back to Nebraska running the option with Eric Crouch, you can't win consistently at a high level with an option offense unless you have a really special QB. And even the best option programs in history had a problem with replacing a great one with another great one with another great one (which is why the "magic" soon wore off on all of them).

There's also the issue that when you recruit players for an option offense and then it eventually fails and you fire the coach, it takes longer to recruit players to play other styles when the new guy arrives.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by long green »

Joe Hamilton ran the triple option as a base offense? That's news to me and Ralph Friedgen.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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PeteRasche wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:06 pm The fault of the writer's idea about Vandy going to the Option is that he simultaneously says Vandy can't get top recruits while pushing a system that absolutely requires a stud recruit at QB in order to succeed at any sort of relatively high level. From GT's best years in the late 90s when they won the ACC (Joe Hamilton) to Navy's nice run in the past few years (Malcolm Perry), all the way back to Nebraska running the option with Eric Crouch, you can't win consistently at a high level with an option offense unless you have a really special QB. And even the best option programs in history had a problem with replacing a great one with another great one with another great one (which is why the "magic" soon wore off on all of them).

There's also the issue that when you recruit players for an option offense and then it eventually fails and you fire the coach, it takes longer to recruit players to play other styles when the new guy arrives.
The counter to this is that you don't need the QB to be any good as a passer, so you're no longer competing with the rest of your conference, etc. for the same talent. You're a great albeit undersized athlete with questionable accuracy? Vandy looks a whole lot better than Navy.

That said, I wouldn't like it if I were a Vandy fan. It's a gimmick, screams of giving up, and, as lg said, puts the theoretical next guy in a real hole.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by long green »

Someone else said that. Still, whatever they do, they don't hire someone as good Niumatalolo or Calhoun.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

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long green wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:04 pm Someone else said that. Still, whatever they do, they don't hire someone as good Niumatalolo or Calhoun.
Too lazy to not guess!
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by PeteRasche »

long green wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:16 pm Joe Hamilton ran the triple option as a base offense? That's news to me and Ralph Friedgen.
Not exclusively but they absolutely did run the option at times. Full disclosure, I couldn't remember the QB's name (Hamilton) and I looked it up and found it in Wikipedia, and it does mention Friedgen running option along with his complicated passing offense. I know Wikipedia is Wikipedia, but I do remember watching bits and pieces of GT back in 1998 or 1999 and seeing Hamilton running option plays.
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Re: Coaching Carousel 2020-21 (Special COVID edition!)

Post by Baywave1 »

Back to the thread topic: If Hall leaves for USM, is he perhaps jumping too soon? As speculated above and elsewhere, if Harbaugh and/or Hermann are gone (and Franklin too?) with open SEC jobs and whatever is to come, we could see enormous migration among existing HCs. I know it's all relative but this year could have an extraordinary number of job openings.

I don't think Fritz leaves but extension buyout should give Dannen the coin to find a solid next coach.

If nothing else, it will keep this board active.
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