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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:53 pm 
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:cry: :cry: :cry:

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Last edited by TUPF on Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:24 pm 
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That one IS urban!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Just horrible --

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1117842271054061568?s=20

https://twitter.com/ToscaAusten/status/1117846890069020678?s=20

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:44 pm 
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I watched Notre Dame’s spire collapse live. Not quite as shocking as seeing the World Trade Center first tower collapse, but jarring nonetheless.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 pm 
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sr wrote:

VERY VERY SAD


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:31 pm 
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I watched the WTC fall from outside my apartment building less than a mile away, and, for me, personally, this is several times more shocking and at least as gut wrenching, maybe more. I can’t even put words to how I feel right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:08 pm 
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I read that the spire is a relatively new replacement. I have a friend who just went and she said they had out all kinds of relics for Holy Week. Hoping they grabbed those or that they keep them in fire proof boxes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 pm 
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All the speculation is that it's a fire due to renovations. Will be interesting to see if that ends up being the case. You'd have to hope it was negligence and not a willful act from some disaffected party.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:38 pm 
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tulaneoutlaw wrote:
All the speculation is that it's a fire due to renovations. Will be interesting to see if that ends up being the case. You'd have to hope it was negligence and not a willful act from some disaffected party.


the Cathedral in Chicago almost burned down ten years ago - were doing work on it and fire started in the roof.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Yankeewave wrote:
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
All the speculation is that it's a fire due to renovations. Will be interesting to see if that ends up being the case. You'd have to hope it was negligence and not a willful act from some disaffected party.


the Cathedral in Chicago almost burned down ten years ago - were doing work on it and fire started in the roof.


Come to think of it, that’s how the Cabildo burned too.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:20 pm 
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Yankeewave wrote:
I read that the spire is a relatively new replacement. I have a friend who just went and she said they had out all kinds of relics for Holy Week. Hoping they grabbed those or that they keep them in fire proof boxes.

My understanding from a colleague who visited fairly recently (and asked geeky engineering questions) is the first responders are tasked with clearing the people and then saving art, not the building. More of the building than you'd suspect is newer than most know, due to renovations and rebuilding over time. He indeed said the spire was, I believe, 19th century.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:35 pm 
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The spire was mid 19th century. It’s one of the most interesting aspects of the cathedral that it has in neo Gothic spire amidst a Gothic cathedral. In terms of specific pieces being old, Pete is correct. But in some ways that’s more the tragedy. The central support structure, as well as the roof, and buttresses, we’re all changed, added on, Altered at different points across the centuries, Causing a layering effect that could never be replicated. It’s one of the reasons I always taught that Cathedral Because you could see the contrast in styles Side-by-side in the same structure

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm 
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The US Navy had to decommission a $1B submarine because a shipyard worker purposefully started a fire in her while performing overhaul work in drydock. Let’s hope this is nothing like that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:49 pm 
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TUPF wrote:
The US Navy had to decommission a $1B submarine because a shipyard worker purposefully started a fire in her while performing overhaul work in drydock. Let’s hope this is nothing like that.


I hope that person is rotting in jail


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:37 am 
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Yankeewave wrote:
TUPF wrote:
The US Navy had to decommission a $1B submarine because a shipyard worker purposefully started a fire in her while performing overhaul work in drydock. Let’s hope this is nothing like that.
I hope that person is rotting in jail
17 years federal prison.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... submarine/

I am sure in the coming weeks there will be ample investigation because this is such a high profile event but just this morning I read a New Yorker article where the writer had visited the Notre Dame restoration project underway in March. She talked about blowtorches used to remove statues from pedestals, etc.

Having been in one nuclear submarine overhaul and one new construction period, I will say that any worksite where there are volatile chemicals used for industrial work, flame, rags, an unusual environment with scaffolds, workers coming and going, pressures to perform, etc., is a recipe for accidents. Just from my point of view the one area where Notre Dame, or any restoration site for that matter, absolutely failed is fire safety. Shipyards have their own fire department for that reason and any time a flame source is used there is a fire watch with extinguishers ten feet away. It’s usually boring until it’s not.

You could tell from the video that the Notre Dame firefighters were playing catch up. Once the cameras showed the extent of the fire and only a handful of firefighters (the visible ones, at least) on the roof you knew it was over. If I am doing a postmortem I would want to know why ten alarms’ worth of equipment including extensions to reach the roof were not within five minutes of the edifice.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:03 am 
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There's no way to fully explain the historical and cultural significance of this building. Parts have been added and renovated over the years, but it's the heart of France, both modern and medieval. It'll be rebuilt, and some of the oldest parts survived, but it'll never be the same. Something is lost from the world that will never be fully returned.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:23 am 
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GretnaGrn wrote:
There's no way to fully explain the historical and cultural significance of this building. Parts have been added and renovated over the years, but it's the heart of France, both modern and medieval. It'll be rebuilt, and some of the oldest parts survived, but it'll never be the same. Something is lost from the world that will never be fully returned.



This. It's why I've found both the "we'll rebuild" and the "it wasn't really all that old" arguments so disheartening the last 24 hours. I realize its human nature to want to make the best of a bad situation, but that's on the micro level. On the macro level, it's driven by an attempt to make future tourist dollars by minimizing the imagination of what's been lost. What's been lost is almost unimaginable, incalculable.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Tulane Preservation Studies Prof weighs in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htPy9ofevSc

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