Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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TUPF
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by TUPF »

Johnny Mac wrote:
OGSB wrote:Still at 1 mph but now to WNW
the turn has started and hopefully will continue

Marcus, I may have asked before, but how are subs affected in storms like this if they are submerged deep? Is it really turbulent deep down from the high seas above?
I went through Hurricane Gloria a thousand years ago while based in New London, CT. I was the ship’s navigator and 3rd in command. It’s a scramble.

A submarine cannot stay in port alongside the pier during a hurricane. It will get destroyed against the pier, or the pier will be destroyed, or both. A submarine base with enough notice will order every submarine to sea that does not have a hull cut. About a hundred miles out to sea outside of each base there are grids in the ocean—in our case it was the Narragansett Bay OPAREAs, or NBOAs. Every boat will be assigned a grid and ordered to sea in a big conga line. It’s like watching a bunch of jumbo jets lined up to take off...tugboats and gunboats escorting each sub out to the river mouth.

Each boat submerges deep, in excess of 400’ (that’s all that is unclassified) and stays deep the whole time. However, each boat is required to copy the satellite broadcasts at least every 8-12 hours, in peacetime and in wartime. Remember that down deep the world could have blown up in th meantime and the only way a submarine knows is to come up to snatch a very quick satellite broadcast. However, it’s not a simple evolution to come to periscope depth, even without a storm. The key is not to hit anything coming up and that requires a passive search on sonar, making sure the ship is ready to come shallow, etc.

In my case I was the Officer of the Deck bringing us to periscope depth right in the midst of Gloria. We were experiencing 10 degree rolls at deeper than 400’. Passing 200’ we had 20 degree rolls. When I proceeded to 150’ the boat got sucked up to the surface, or broached. I looked aft through the scope and half the boat was out of the water and I could see the propeller spinning free in the air. This was a 360’ long, 7000 ton submarine getting thrown around like a bath toy. I estimated wave heights 80-100 feet based on breaking on the submarine upper hull. Most everyone in the boat had puke buckets and the waves were pounding us so hard I thought we’d break something. I grabbed the satellite pass as soon as I could and went deep. One of the most pucker inducing feats of my life.

The next day upon return to port the shores were littered with smashed small craft. The one-ton anchored sea buoy out near Long Island Sound had moved a quarter mile. The Shore was without power for over a week. It’s not nice to underestimate Mother Nature.
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OGSB
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by OGSB »

Stationary at 5:00 & 8:00 advisories.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results

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Johnny Mac
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by Johnny Mac »

TUPF wrote:
Johnny Mac wrote:
OGSB wrote:Still at 1 mph but now to WNW
the turn has started and hopefully will continue

Marcus, I may have asked before, but how are subs affected in storms like this if they are submerged deep? Is it really turbulent deep down from the high seas above?
I went through Hurricane Gloria a thousand years ago while based in New London, CT. I was the ship’s navigator and 3rd in command. It’s a scramble.

A submarine cannot stay in port alongside the pier during a hurricane. It will get destroyed against the pier, or the pier will be destroyed, or both. A submarine base with enough notice will order every submarine to sea that does not have a hull cut. About a hundred miles out to sea outside of each base there are grids in the ocean—in our case it was the Narragansett Bay OPAREAs, or NBOAs. Every boat will be assigned a grid and ordered to sea in a big conga line. It’s like watching a bunch of jumbo jets lined up to take off...tugboats and gunboats escorting each sub out to the river mouth.

Each boat submerges deep, in excess of 400’ (that’s all that is unclassified) and stays deep the whole time. However, each boat is required to copy the satellite broadcasts at least every 8-12 hours, in peacetime and in wartime. Remember that down deep the world could have blown up in th meantime and the only way a submarine knows is to come up to snatch a very quick satellite broadcast. However, it’s not a simple evolution to come to periscope depth, even without a storm. The key is not to hit anything coming up and that requires a passive search on sonar, making sure the ship is ready to come shallow, etc.

In my case I was the Officer of the Deck bringing us to periscope depth right in the midst of Gloria. We were experiencing 10 degree rolls at deeper than 400’. Passing 200’ we had 20 degree rolls. When I proceeded to 150’ the boat got sucked up to the surface, or broached. I looked aft through the scope and half the boat was out of the water and I could see the propeller spinning free in the air. This was a 360’ long, 7000 ton submarine getting thrown around like a bath toy. I estimated wave heights 80-100 feet based on breaking on the submarine upper hull. Most everyone in the boat had puke buckets and the waves were pounding us so hard I thought we’d break something. I grabbed the satellite pass as soon as I could and went deep. One of the most pucker inducing feats of my life.

The next day upon return to port the shores were littered with smashed small craft. The one-ton anchored sea buoy out near Long Island Sound had moved a quarter mile. The Shore was without power for over a week. It’s not nice to underestimate Mother Nature.
umm, not just a "no" but a "he11 no!!" I have many personal reasons to not be on a sub.. you've just added one to the list!
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by SoFlaWave »

I’m out of the cone of uncertainty. Just some squalls today. Hoping for the best, but it looks like Grand Bahama and the Abacos got creamed. We got lucky in South Florida (so far).

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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Finding a little humor in a serious situation --

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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SoFlaWave wrote:I’m out of the cone of uncertainty. Just some squalls today. Hoping for the best, but it looks like Grand Bahama and the Abacos got creamed. We got lucky in South Florida (so far).
Not to mention Elbow Cay.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by Fan Since '54 »

The Cajun Navy is getting ready to roll to wherever they are needed. Fox News interviewed one of their main guys just a few minutes ago. God bless those guys who go out of their way to help in the event of a hurricane whenever and wherever they are needed.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by Roller »

We're supposedly out of the Hurricane cone now. Expecting TS winds by early tomorrow, however.

TUPF--do you really have to come all the way to periscope depth? I would have thought there would be a tethered antenna buoy you could send up and reel back in after taking your data dump.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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Roller wrote:We're supposedly out of the Hurricane cone now. Expecting TS winds by early tomorrow, however.

TUPF--do you really have to come all the way to periscope depth? I would have thought there would be a tethered antenna buoy you could send up and reel back in after taking your data dump.
Yes. A fast attack has a floating wire but the wire has to be extended and relatively straight to be effective—an impossibility during a hurricane. Plus, it would get broken off. A boomer has a floating comms buoy but it too would get torn off in a storm.

We were getting bashed around so much that I ordered an active query of the satellite from the radio mast just to get the hell out of there. We never would have been stable long enough to get a passive download. We stopped getting heavy rolls not until well below 400’.

The noise from the hull getting bashed by monster waves was deafening. It was a tough day.
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sr
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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These early pictures of Abaco remind me of how Henderson Point looked like after Camille, but without the shipping containers. Just debris and nothing else. All houses were swept off their foundations and deposited in the Bay. Really, really bad.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by PeteRasche »

Weather person here this morning put it in terms us Midwesterners can understand regarding yesterday's stall: imagine an F3 tornado just planted itself in your yard for a day and sat there. :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by Fan Since '54 »

OMG. it is so literally depressing to see the TOTAL damage in Abaco Bahamas. There is pretty much NOTHING left standing there. And the gentleman who was reporting from there says that is stinks of death. And getting folks there to help is almost impossible. :cry:

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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

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Dorian’s eye is at about the same latitude as I am now, about 150 miles out to sea. I live 3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean. Rain has stopped and wind has picked up to about 20 kts but the sky is brightening. Nothing really to speak of here in the Mid Atlantic. Rain was not as much as a usual summer rainfall. It should be gorgeous out tomorrow but the beach waves should be angry (get it?). Expecting the beaches to have eroded a bit when I go over tomorrow.
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Re: Keeping an eye on Dorian --

Post by krewe of ham and eggs »

TUPF wrote:Dorian’s eye is at about the same latitude as I am now, about 150 miles out to sea. I live 3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean. Rain has stopped and wind has picked up to about 20 kts but the sky is brightening. Nothing really to speak of here in the Mid Atlantic. Rain was not as much as a usual summer rainfall. It should be gorgeous out tomorrow but the beach waves should be angry (get it?). Expecting the beaches to have eroded a bit when I go over tomorrow.
There were some angry waves on the south side of the Chesapeake today
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