GSx wrote:
indeed, their only loss of the year, on the road, to an UNDEFEATED Missour State Bears team.
This team should be in post-season. PERIOD. For ONCE let's either achieve it, or not, WITHOUT excuses (and there are no excuses for this team not making it - NONE). And if we do, celebrate. And if we don't there MUST be consequences.
The loss, makes the road that much more difficult.
The ridicuslously low bar for success around here absolutely must be raised. Because next year, we lose our great PG and the only rebounder.....
Really? Now they get credibility for the MSU win? I wonder if that would hold true for us from our fans? NOPE
anyway - can we at least get to the end of the season and FAIL at getting to the post-season rather than the "world is ending" in game 7?
Did they only score 50 points? Besides, PSU is not a good basketball team or program. Holding that game up as a marquee victory serves only to denegrate our team. Oklahoma State on the other hand was a 2nd round tourney team last year and will probably be one again this year. My point is this, losses like this one do nothing to help us relative to our conference peers.
Furthermore, a top 4 finish in our conference no longer means anything. Gone are the days when Cincinnatti, Charlotte (when the were good), Marquette, and Memphis (still here but not as much of a powerhouse) inhabited CUSA. We are now a 1-2 bid league, and losses to the UNO's of the world will be tough to explain to even the NIT selection committee. If I'm wrong about that, please please please explain it to me.
2006grad wrote:Did they only score 50 points? Besides, PSU is not a good basketball team or program. Holding that game up as a marquee victory serves only to denegrate our team. Oklahoma State on the other hand was a 2nd round tourney team last year and will probably be one again this year. My point is this, losses like this one do nothing to help us relative to our conference peers.
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My point is Tulsa is the # 1 team in CUSA and had a comparable win vs. a Big 12 team that will be decent in their conference - maybe in the 4th place to 6th range
and we had a comparable WIN for where we are this year as a program.
It is not the greatest win in history but it is a heck of a lot better than about 10-13 games on our schedule will be. Again, If we can BASH the losses as much as everyone loves to do - at least give the WINs credit.
We have become a group that loves to bask in the agony of defeat
I refuse to give a win over Penn State's basketball team much credit. Off the top of my head I can think of 8-9 teams in their own conference that are better than them. As I said in my last post, OK State went to the second round of the tourney last year (beat Tennessee) and will be a tournament team again this year. Therefore, our win against PSU is nowhere near comparable to the Golden Hurricane's TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the Cowboys.
We lost to a bad team last night in a miserable fashion. We seem to do that every year against UNO. The inability of coaches and players to "get up" for this game is a recurring problem that needs to be addressed. While one may argue that it doesn't mean as much to our players b/c we are a better school/program, you would think that our losing record against them over the last 10 years would be enough of an incentive. Hell, you would think that getting to play D-1 basketball would be enough of an incentive to be pumped up for every game. Of course, it's quite possible that regardless of how motivated our players are, they are not being put in a position to win consistently. That analysis will have to wait until March though.
As for loving to bask in the agony of defeat, you are dead wrong. Do you honestly think that the posters on this board wouldn't rather be discussing a 25 point win against UNO? Nobody on this board wants anything other than Tulane victories. What we do have on this board are plenty of people that refuse to call a spade a spade and always try to spin the unacceptable in a positive light. With the line of thinking that many of these individuals adhere to (I saw it plenty during the football season) we should count this last game as an "almost win" and should rejoice in how competitive we were. What a joke.
Other than possibly baseball (although the new rule changes are making it harder for RJ), basketball should by all rights be Tulane's best sport. Plenty of small private schools do extremely well in basketball regardless of how their football teams do (if they even have a fb team). Our continuing inability to achieve a level of national recognition and success in basketball is far more difficult to explain away than in football.
2006grad wrote:As for loving to bask in the agony of defeat, you are dead wrong. Do you honestly think that the posters on this board wouldn't rather be discussing a 25 point win against UNO? Nobody on this board wants anything other than Tulane victories. What we do have on this board are plenty of people that refuse to call a spade a spade and always try to spin the unacceptable in a positive light. With the line of thinking that many of these individuals adhere to (I saw it plenty during the football season) we should count this last game as an "almost win" and should rejoice in how competitive we were. What a joke.
False. Check the number of replies to the thread after the Penn State win. Compare that to the number of responses in the same time frame as to this game. People on this board love to bi*tch and moan about defeat, yet never analyze victories in the same way. Penn State may not be the greatest team this year, but the fact is one season ago, they won the NIT. WON. I realize the NIT is not the tournament, but where were we in march? When the Saints beat the Patriots this week, was there much discussion about how the patriots were a weaker team this year. No, the discussion was how the saints beat the team of the decade.
As for loving to bask in the agony of defeat, you are dead wrong. Do you honestly think that the posters on this board wouldn't rather be discussing a 25 point win against UNO? Nobody on this board wants anything other than Tulane victories. What we do have on this board are plenty of people that refuse to call a spade a spade and always try to spin the unacceptable in a positive light. With the line of thinking that many of these individuals adhere to (I saw it plenty during the football season) we should count this last game as an "almost win" and should rejoice in how competitive we were. What a joke..[/quote]
Amen brother!
I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.
I think we bask in defeat. Apparently that's the level we've sunk to. Never much of an acknowledgement of any steps in the right direction. It's just hard to get any kind of discussion going that isn't quickly drowned out by the Debbie Downers.
GreenieBacker wrote:I think we bask in defeat. Apparently that's the level we've sunk to. Never much of an acknowledgement of any steps in the right direction. It's just hard to get any kind of discussion going that isn't quickly drowned out by the Debbie Downers.
Forty to fifty years of losing will do that to you. Saints fans used to feel the same way about the "Aints"..........
Tulane School of Business Class of 1981
Loyola MBA Class of 1988
Conference Realignment "is like changing seats on the Titanic."
GreenieBacker wrote:unless you've been asleep like a modern day Rip Van Winkle, that statement is WRONG
we've had a number of winning seasons and some great teams in both football and basketball within the last "50 years"
seriously, the depressing hyperbole here is out of control.
I am all about highlighting the positives for the "feel good" feeling. But let's face it, if you only win 25% of your games, then how can the majority of the discussion be about positives when the majority is negative? This basketball season is not over so things CAN be turned around after a loss like this. BUt so far for the other major sport this year, we should really spend all our time focusing on the few positives when they are heavily outweighed by the negatives? Hopefully soon, we will only be losing 25% of the games (I really hope less) and then I can say the exact opposite as the majority will be positive.
Once again, the Penn State victory wasn't that big of a deal. They aren't a very good team, and we still barely beat them. Hence not many posts. Beating Georgetown, on the other hand, would have evoked far more responses. The fact that so many on this board consider PSU a marquee win is depressing. Is that how low we've sunk?
To come back to the game for a minute, give Pasternack some credit at the end there. He called time out after Holmes missed the first FT, as he knew he only needed a two-pointer to tie it at that point. He then set up the pick and roll play ("We thought we could exploit that play"--TP quote) and they executed it beautifully.
Tough finish for Holmes. Anyone who's played the game understood, after his reaction when he missed the first FT, that the second one would have no chance. He barely drew iron with the second one, always a sign that you coudn't have driven a toothpick up his backside with a jackhammer. I hope he gets another chance in that situation so he can exorcise the demons.
Still, you have to find a way to inbound the ball to No. 1 in that situation. Yes they're going to deny him, and yes he's a little slight, but you need to have a design to get it in his hands so he's the one taking those free throws, and you need a guy with the courage to pass it in to him in that split second window where you have him open.
The other problem with missing those was that it distracted AH on the other end, as his reaction to and recovery from the ball screen that created the game-winning shot was poor, as you can see if you watch that youtube clip. It would have been nice to have Eric Vianney in the game there at the end in that last minute. Or for that matter, more than 5 minutes in a game against that opponent.
They were in some ways a bad matchup for us. Their guards were quicker as a group and created some problems with penetration, and their two big guys, though limited, were able to play over the heads of McQueen and Booker on the boards and with their interior defense (get used to it), especially the foreign guy who got the 13 boards. Where we seemed to have a favorable matchup was at the 3 spot but Holmes and Timmons weren't as aggressive as they were against GMU.
Richard, of course, needs to play with a swagger all the time for us to go where we want to. He doesn't have the McQueen spigot, but his spigot still isn't full open enough. He needs to look for his shot, look for his driving lanes, and just go. Be a little more selfish.
Booker played hard and crashed the boards hard, I thought. He's just not a riser so he has to knock people around to rebound and score. Kind of like your uncle in those old pickup games on family holidays. But he's crafty and, last night, a little mean which i liked. As for Asim, I see him and keep thinking he could be a slower-footed version of Rayshard Allen, but perhaps with more variety to his offensive game. Rayshard was a better leaper than McQueen and quicker, but he struggled against taller guys too when he couldn't outquick them to the hole. When you're a post player and have the build but lack the hops of a Charles Barkley, you have to find a way to get room for your shot. when mcqueen takes the time to back down and do that he can score. when he rushes or forces things he can't. We need him to be the guy he was against mason, and that includes no more zoning out or passive play on the defensive end and defensive glass.
I'm tempted to say to Hogan and Anderson "there's a reason you're so open," but most of those shots esp. Hogan's were open 10-12 footers and I have to think they hit those in practice. I do like Hogan's effort, and where else does Coach go when #2 and #4 need a blow or make mistakes?
Once again, the Penn State victory wasn't that big of a deal. They aren't a very good team, and we still barely beat them. Hence not many posts. Beating Georgetown, on the other hand, would have evoked far more responses. The fact that so many on this board consider PSU a marquee win is depressing. Is that how low we've sunk?
bayouman wrote:To come back to the game for a minute, give Pasternack some credit at the end there.
NO
the other teams players and coaches get ZERO CREDIT! They didnt come to play and they made no coaching choices to win this game. In fact they were just thrown together last minute to come play and have not practiced EVER.
Its all our fault - NEVER does it EVER have anything to do with the other team.... NEVER
Alright, stop the overanalyzing of how much we talk about losses vs. wins. It's just human nature to talk more about losses. Someone above complained that there was little analyzing of the win over Penn State. Well... uh, how DO you analyze a win? Why bother going on and on about how well one guy played or how well we executed this or that? Just post "well done, good job guys" and be done with it. But when you lose, you analyze WHY. It's not US, it's human nature. A friend just pointed out to me that the Saints chat boards are DEAD compared to previous years when they were losing. It's human nature... everything is going well, what's to talk about?
As for the PSU game specifically... also, it was on a Friday afternoon. Most people have something to do Friday nights, and Saturdays are reserved for football talk. Plus, with a tournament setting and not knowing when you will play until the results of the previous game, people tend to lose track of when and who you play. Personally, I listened to the Miami game, but did not follow that night to see who we would play and when, and I completely missed the PSU game, only saw the score on the ESPN ticket that Friday night... so what could I post, ya know? It had nothing to do with me only wanting to "bask in defeat". Were there tons and tons of posts about the Lasalle game? I don't recall many. I think it was more because of the games being in a tourney and over a football weekend, whereas the Miami game (coincidentally, a loss) was a Thursday and scheduled well ahead of time.
Relax, guys.
P.S. BMT - while I understand what you are saying about the other team and coach actually doing their jobs, I think the point is that Tulane should have better players and a better coach than UNO, and should be better prepared and have more heart and play smarter and harder and such. SHOULD.
It was a good win. It was not a great win. Had GM won those two games you cited instead of merely playing close, then it would have been a great win. In fact, I truly can't remember the last time a men's team other than the baseball team actually had a victory that I would consider "great". The two closest that I can think of would be the Hawaii Bowl and our victory against Navy when they went 10-2. Those games, however, still don't really qualify since neither team was ranked when we won. You can talk all you want about how big our wins against GM and PSU are, but we have two far more destructive losses against La Salle and UNO. I want this team to go to the post season, but they can't drop games against teams of that caliber and expect an invite. Just ask last year's baseball team (I still think we got "mistreated"). I just hope we beat Lamar. I don't want to have to hear any bs from my friends at home.
bigmoneytx wrote:this team plays just as hard if not harder than it did last year. will they/can they do that every single night.No. We will be better than some teams we play and we wont be better than others, and just like most teams on any night - if you dont come to play for the entire game you will lose whether it is tulane vs uno last night or the Illini coming back from 20+ points in the 2nd half to beat #19 Clemson.
This loss hurt and was bad. I didnt agree with the mass subs when we were up 15-2 and pointed it out to two people next to me and said if we lose - that was the moment we lost. Even though the starters all came back in a couple minutes later with a 17-4 lead, they lost their mo-jo. Bad coaching choice - yes. I am sure he wants that one back. In the end, our players had the chance to win/seal the game themselves - as players - hit free throwns or layups or an open three - we win.
UNO has always played this rivalry harder than us since 1999-2000 at the least. Its like Tulane playing ULM,ULL, etc in football - We are the better/bigger traditional program so they "get up" to play us. Well same vs UNO in hoops - i think their staff in the last decade did a better job selling the game to the players.
Either way it doesnt change my thoughts on the season. We are a solid(NOT GREAT) CUSA team - Top 4 in CUSA. Losing this game was horrible and I also understand that in Rivalry games the records and talent can easily go out the window (see rivalry week in college football and hoops where upsets happen). You give a team some life and they can do anything in a game like this at the end.
I feel bad for the people that "throw in the towel" and start bashing the team and players so early on in the season against a rivalry team match-up (or any loss this early really). I guess thats life for most fans at any school b/c I am sure the Duke fans think they are poorly coached and that the team gave up and sucks after their loss last night...
IN THE END (or the beginning to be precise)We took our foot off the pedal - period, and it bit our arses.
2006grad wrote: . I just hope we beat Lamar. I don't want to have to hear any bs from my friends at home.
Lamar should be like a home game for us, we BETTER WIN. I will be there with I hope anywhere from 3 to 8 people. K Richards family and friends should be there in full and maybe some of the guys from the Houston area since their families can take it as an opportunity to see them around holiday time (a bit after)
Once again, the Penn State victory wasn't that big of a deal. They aren't a very good team, and we still barely beat them. Hence not many posts. Beating Georgetown, on the other hand, would have evoked far more responses. The fact that so many on this board consider PSU a marquee win is depressing. Is that how low we've sunk?
How can you not consider the Penn State victory a big deal? Or the GM victory? Those teams played in march last year. We did not. I consider both pretty good wins.
2006grad wrote:You can talk all you want about how big our wins against GM and PSU are, but we have two far more destructive losses against La Salle and UNO.
Exactly.
If the goal of basketball - and it is - is postseason, then the above quote says all that needs to be said. You can't have a big win and offset it with a horrid loss. Many, many a team has sat home with a burst bubble because of an early-season bad loss. You just can't lose those types of games if you have any intention of being a postseason team.
"the other teams players and coaches get ZERO CREDIT! They didnt come to play and they made no coaching choices to win this game. In fact they were just thrown together last minute to come play and have not practiced EVER."
Actually that is my point, UNO did make coaching choices (adjustments) to the extent that they won the game. We did not. If you asked me we were outcoached . It was also my point was that UNO did come to play, they came to our gym and beat a Tulane team that had superior talent. We were a 12 point favorite. This all occured with a backdrop of the UNO players not knowing where they will be next year or what division they will play in. Uno players were mentally tougher and wanted it more according to coach D, and it was obvious. The question is why? Good teams hold serve at home against lesser opponents and pull a surprising upset on the road now and then. We will see how the season plays out but this loss hurt us bad.
"I guess the George Mason win wasnt big either"
The Mason win was a very nice win and set the stage for a nice run, unfortunatley the UNO loss negated the Mason win and killed any momentum going forward, One step forward and one step back will not get us where we need to be. Look, I know our staff and kids want to win but recruiting failures by the staff as far as power forwards and centers over the last three years have left us in a mess. If we could hold our own on the boards we would probably have two more wins and things would look a lot better. If players cant get up for a cross town rival in your own gym that has a recently history of handling them, then maybe they should look within.
