Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of Ga.

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randymc
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Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of Ga.

Post by randymc »

The 6-6" G has interest from Ga. Tech, TCU, Florida State, Tulane and Georgia.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/ ... and-234863

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Rotorooter »

A 6' 6" guard? Wow, how the game has changed.

So we have commitments and interest from about 5 guys 6'4" to 6'7". Kind of interesting really. Play 4 forwards and 1 guard? I kind of like it in that we will be so different from most teams we would be hard to prepare for. I like unorthodox as an underdog.

That said, I'd still like to get a 7'0" post player.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by 1401973 »

The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by angrywavedad »

Look at Georgia State's roster. Nothing but tall guards and small forwards:

http://www.georgiastatesports.com/Sport ... EASON=2018

Which makes sense given the aggressive, extended zone defense that Coach Hunter wants.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by GreenieBacker »

quick, aggressive, disruptive players is what he's probably looking for. Big, tall, slow post players wouldn't seem to fit what he wants to do.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

Rotorooter wrote:A 6' 6" guard? Wow, how the game has changed.

So we have commitments and interest from about 5 guys 6'4" to 6'7". Kind of interesting really. Play 4 forwards and 1 guard? I kind of like it in that we will be so different from most teams we would be hard to prepare for. I like unorthodox as an underdog.

That said, I'd still like to get a 7'0" post player.
Most people would call it 4 guards and 1 big. The key is having guards who can shoot (and make) 3s
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Rotorooter »

1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by angrywavedad »

GreenieBacker wrote:quick, aggressive, disruptive players is what he's probably looking for. Big, tall, slow post players wouldn't seem to fit what he wants to do.
Which leads one to think that Coach Hunter won't be stressing out about the departure of the folks who've talked about leaving. I'm sure he'd love for Daniels to stick around though.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Rotorooter »

GreenieBacker wrote:quick, aggressive, disruptive players is what he's probably looking for. Big, tall, slow post players wouldn't seem to fit what he wants to do.
Great point. But it would be nice to have a guy to match up if the opponent DOES beat the match-up zone inside. One legit 6'9" would do it.
Plan your work, work your plan.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

GreenieBacker wrote:quick, aggressive, disruptive players is what he's probably looking for. Big, tall, slow post players wouldn't seem to fit what he wants to do.
It's also just the direction the game is going. The big man has been legislated out. Everyone is shooting. A 6'7" guy who might put on some weight to play PF 30 years ago just stays lean and shoots 3s. Just listened to a good podcast about this with Zach Lowe. Starting with George Mikan drawing the 3 point line in the ABA, through all of the illegal defense changes to get the game where it is today. Good listen.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Rotorooter »

gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
No. 1990-2010 would be OK. MJ excepted. But if you have 10 GREAT Gs from pre-1990 I'd love to hear it.
Plan your work, work your plan.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by GreenieBacker »

AWD, I think you're very right. I don't think the type of player MD was recruiting to, essentially, run a half court offense and defense............is what Hunter is loking to run here at TU. And Daniels and Sehic, more so than any other players that MD had on the court last year are perfect fits for what Hunter wants to do. And maybe Embo.

which is why I think those 2-3 players are key for next year.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by PeteRasche »

Rotorooter wrote:A 6' 6" guard? Wow, how the game has changed.

So we have commitments and interest from about 5 guys 6'4" to 6'7". Kind of interesting really. Play 4 forwards and 1 guard? I kind of like it in that we will be so different from most teams we would be hard to prepare for. I like unorthodox as an underdog.

That said, I'd still like to get a 7'0" post player.
Um, where have you been? This was the exact same recruiting philosophy of Mike Dunleavy, Sr. for the last three years.
Moses Wood listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Kevin Zhang listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Crabtree, G, 6'6.
Barrett, Quinn, Galic... all guards, 6'5.

Dunleavy was quoted (and discussed here MANY times) as wanting four tall, good-shooting guards and a single inside big man. Have you wiped the past three years from memory completely? (I mean, I suppose I can't blame you, I kinda want to forget it too... 8) )

The problem was that MD recruited tall guys who were not quick enough to play D1 defense, and not good enough shooters to win games by outscoring people.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by tjtlja »

Lets just hope the competition for any of the guys we are after does not include a P5. We don’t pay for players.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Rotorooter »

PeteRasche wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:A 6' 6" guard? Wow, how the game has changed.

So we have commitments and interest from about 5 guys 6'4" to 6'7". Kind of interesting really. Play 4 forwards and 1 guard? I kind of like it in that we will be so different from most teams we would be hard to prepare for. I like unorthodox as an underdog.

That said, I'd still like to get a 7'0" post player.
Um, where have you been? This was the exact same recruiting philosophy of Mike Dunleavy, Sr. for the last three years.
Moses Wood listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Kevin Zhang listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Crabtree, G, 6'6.
Barrett, Quinn, Galic... all guards, 6'5.

Dunleavy was quoted (and discussed here MANY times) as wanting four tall, good-shooting guards and a single inside big man. Have you wiped the past three years from memory completely? (I mean, I suppose I can't blame you, I kinda want to forget it too... 8) )

The problem was that MD recruited tall guys who were not quick enough to play D1 defense, and not good enough shooters to win games by outscoring people.
While agree with your last paragraph, Dunleavy wanted tall shooters from the outside. I would call Wood and Zhang small forwards; Sehic clearly does not fall into this category, he was an inside player predominately. The rest I agree with, they were SGs that couldn't shoot well enough.

I admit I do not know what offense Hunter runs. Defensively, I look forward to pressing and a match up zone, although I like varied approaches to defense with in a game (zone to MTM to press, etc.). My point is, if we run RH's defense with these type of players, it will be interesting to watch having 4 forwards and 1 guard play. Offensively, Dunleavy was not far off in his philosophy, he just didn't execute his recruiting strategy with his in-game philosophy. Then again, he probably couldn't get the players because Tulane would not pay enough $$$.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

Rotorooter wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
No. 1990-2010 would be OK. MJ excepted. But if you have 10 GREAT Gs from pre-1990 I'd love to hear it.
Magic
Kobe
Drexler
Reggie
T-Mac
Vince Carter
Paul Pierce
Steve Smith
Penny
Jalen Rose
Eddie Jones
Allan Houston
Majerle
Glen Rice
Stackhouse
Michael Finley
Michael Redd
Rip Hamilton
Joe Johnson
Brandon Roy
Manu
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

Rotorooter wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
No. 1990-2010 would be OK. MJ excepted. But if you have 10 GREAT Gs from pre-1990 I'd love to hear it.
Pre-90 I couldn't get 10 and most skew toward the 80s, since before that if you were 6'6" or taller you were at least a SF and maybe a PF depending on era.
Magic
Jordan
Gervin
BIG GAP
Eddie Johnson
Rolando Blackmon
Reggie Theus
Dale Ellis
Ron Harper

There are a bunch of 6'5" guys, but even lots of them were classified as SF. Now there are point guards, wings, and bigs. Not much difference between a SG and SF.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by tjtlja »

Rotorooter wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:A 6' 6" guard? Wow, how the game has changed.

So we have commitments and interest from about 5 guys 6'4" to 6'7". Kind of interesting really. Play 4 forwards and 1 guard? I kind of like it in that we will be so different from most teams we would be hard to prepare for. I like unorthodox as an underdog.

That said, I'd still like to get a 7'0" post player.
Um, where have you been? This was the exact same recruiting philosophy of Mike Dunleavy, Sr. for the last three years.
Moses Wood listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Kevin Zhang listed as a combo G/F. 6'8.
Crabtree, G, 6'6.
Barrett, Quinn, Galic... all guards, 6'5.

Dunleavy was quoted (and discussed here MANY times) as wanting four tall, good-shooting guards and a single inside big man. Have you wiped the past three years from memory completely? (I mean, I suppose I can't blame you, I kinda want to forget it too... 8) )

The problem was that MD recruited tall guys who were not quick enough to play D1 defense, and not good enough shooters to win games by outscoring people.
While agree with your last paragraph, Dunleavy wanted tall shooters from the outside. I would call Wood and Zhang small forwards; Sehic clearly does not fall into this category, he was an inside player predominately. The rest I agree with, they were SGs that couldn't shoot well enough.

I admit I do not know what offense Hunter runs. Defensively, I look forward to pressing and a match up zone, although I like varied approaches to defense with in a game (zone to MTM to press, etc.). My point is, if we run RH's defense with these type of players, it will be interesting to watch having 4 forwards and 1 guard play. Offensively, Dunleavy was not far off in his philosophy, he just didn't execute his recruiting strategy with his in-game philosophy. Then again, he probably couldn't get the players because Tulane would not pay enough $$$.
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by Baywave1 »

GreenieBacker wrote:AWD, I think you're very right. I don't think the type of player MD was recruiting to, essentially, run a half court offense and defense............is what Hunter is loking to run here at TU. And Daniels and Sehic, more so than any other players that MD had on the court last year are perfect fits for what Hunter wants to do. And maybe Embo.

which is why I think those 2-3 players are key for next year.
GB, Agree absolutely about Daniels and ROE being perfect fits for Hunter schemes. I'm not there on Sehic but if we are to avoid dorm tryouts in September, we need some part of MD's roster to stay so if Sehic stays too, great.


Otherwise, gents, I vaguely recall Hunter saying he has never played MTM defense in his HC tenure. I can't verify that quote but having seen GSU under Hunter demolish Tulane twice with a smothering zone defense, I believe it. What is interesting and certainly counter-philosophy to Dunleavy is Hunter doesn't care if he loses rebound stat war because of his preference for zone.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

gerryb323 wrote:
GreenieBacker wrote:quick, aggressive, disruptive players is what he's probably looking for. Big, tall, slow post players wouldn't seem to fit what he wants to do.
It's also just the direction the game is going. The big man has been legislated out. Everyone is shooting. A 6'7" guy who might put on some weight to play PF 30 years ago just stays lean and shoots 3s. Just listened to a good podcast about this with Zach Lowe. Starting with George Mikan drawing the 3 point line in the ABA, through all of the illegal defense changes to get the game where it is today. Good listen.
Article by the same guy from the podcast I heard. He wrote a whole book on it.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ho ... t-forever/
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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by ml wave »

gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
No. 1990-2010 would be OK. MJ excepted. But if you have 10 GREAT Gs from pre-1990 I'd love to hear it.
There are a bunch of 6'5" guys, but even lots of them were classified as SF. Now there are point guards, wings, and bigs. Not much difference between a SG and SF.
There are no more positions in basketball.

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Re: Coach Hunter offers 2021 Guard Matthew Cleveland out of

Post by gerryb323 »

ml wave wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:
1401973 wrote:The Big O was a 6'5" point guard in 1960.
Magic Johnson was a 6'9" point guard in 1980.
The tall guard has been around a while.
You can find an exception to everything. Big O, MJ (6'5") and Magic were not the norm and are HOFs because of it. Jerry West was 6'3" as was Jason Kidd; Stockton 6' 1" as was Nash; it just hasn't been that common until the game has evolved in the last 5-10 years to tall shooters from 3-land. Name me 10 great 6'6" guards and I'll give you twenty years as a reference. Today it's more common than ever.
You want 10 great 6'6" guards from longer than 20 years ago?
No. 1990-2010 would be OK. MJ excepted. But if you have 10 GREAT Gs from pre-1990 I'd love to hear it.
There are a bunch of 6'5" guys, but even lots of them were classified as SF. Now there are point guards, wings, and bigs. Not much difference between a SG and SF.
There are no more positions in basketball.
Lots of people like to say "positionless" basketball. How about "positionish" basketball. Smaller ball-handlers, wings, bigs. With fluidity between "positions"
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