FRITZ EXTENSION

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QuarterbackU
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by QuarterbackU »

I am very happy with the move and it is deserved. He holds the players accountable and has brought in transfers (while not whining "whoah is me" to the media and anyone who listens about "how you can't win at Tulane" or "the cupboard was bare"...).

He got his "signature" win last season against Houston on national TV and brought fantastic publicity to the program and we are not a school "who just brings the AAC down" any more. He has won six out of his last seven non-AAC games (including the two Bowl wins) - none of our AAC colleagues can complain about that.

I personally would like to see him complete at least 2 of the 3 below in Year 5:
-This is the year that we need to defeat and leapfrog SMU in program stature (who he is 0-4 against).
-This is the year that we need to defeat and leapfrog Temple in program stature (who he is 0-2 against).
-Start 4-0 and have Tulane in the Top 25 (with three wins on national TV: ESPN2, ABC, and ESPN).
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by wavedom »

long green wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:14 pm
When are we going to act like winners? When we no longer think 6-6 is a good regular season. Fritz is doing a good job and deserves support. But he's yet to take the next step. If 1309 thinks he has already he's the one with the problem.
You are correct. Certainly we have improved and everyone hopes we take that big leap to true conference champion contender on a regular basis and conference champions once every 4-5 years and Fritz stays for the next decade or so. Unfortunately we have too many who suffer with low bar syndrome.It's year 5. It 's time to take a leap this season. Have expectations. It's the only way a program grows. Hell even WF has called out those with such low expectations.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by gerryb323 »

wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:14 am
long green wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:14 pm
When are we going to act like winners? When we no longer think 6-6 is a good regular season. Fritz is doing a good job and deserves support. But he's yet to take the next step. If 1309 thinks he has already he's the one with the problem.
You are correct. Certainly we have improved and everyone hopes we take that big leap to true conference champion contender on a regular basis and conference champions once every 4-5 years and Fritz stays for the next decade or so. Unfortunately we have too many who suffer with low bar syndrome.It's year 5. It 's time to take a leap this season. Have expectations. It's the only way a program grows. Hell even WF has called out those with such low expectations.
Sorry, LG is looking at the buyout wrong. If you still want WF here in the next 2 years, you're certainly going to want him here in 5-7.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by PeteRasche »

QuarterbackU wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:41 am
-Start 4-0 and have Tulane in the Top 25 (with three wins on national TV: ESPN2, ABC, and ESPN).
I've seen a few people talk about this idea here... I don't know that we would we be Top 25 if we start out with wins against South Alabama, Southern Miss, a Navy team that looked horrible in its other high-profile game, and a Houston team that went 4-8 last year and is riddled with inactive players with COVID. I realize we are "benefiting" :? from the lack of other teams playing right now, but I can't see us leapfrogging 6 or 7 or 10 other teams that quickly, no matter how good we look... and by the time that Houston win rolls around, the SEC will be back playing and sucking up every second of media/voter attention.

Don't get me wrong, I will take a ranking if it comes and I certainly will take 4-0 whether it brings a ranking or not... I just don't know that we're that we're that "noticed" yet. And the whole country is going to be watching the SEC (if for no other reason than to see how they are handling COVID).

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by long green »

gerryb323 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:39 am
wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:14 am
long green wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:14 pm
When are we going to act like winners? When we no longer think 6-6 is a good regular season. Fritz is doing a good job and deserves support. But he's yet to take the next step. If 1309 thinks he has already he's the one with the problem.
You are correct. Certainly we have improved and everyone hopes we take that big leap to true conference champion contender on a regular basis and conference champions once every 4-5 years and Fritz stays for the next decade or so. Unfortunately we have too many who suffer with low bar syndrome.It's year 5. It 's time to take a leap this season. Have expectations. It's the only way a program grows. Hell even WF has called out those with such low expectations.
Sorry, LG is looking at the buyout wrong. If you still want WF here in the next 2 years, you're certainly going to want him here in 5-7.
My concern with the buyout clause in this extension is this (and only this): In the unlikely event that things go south on this program I want Tulane to have the flexibility to make a move if they have to. I’d hate for us either to shell out precious money or squander precious time hoping we don’t have to shell out the precious money.

I don’t take the time aspect of the extension too seriously. If we take the next step we all want (well, that I and wavedom certainly want) this won’t be Fritz’ last deal at Tulane. If Troy is convinced we’re moving from to this level of achievement to the next, great. I think that depends on a player, not a coach. Do we have a real winner at quarterback on campus now? If we don’t I dont understand the timing.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Marathon Wave »

How many on this board were alive to watch the Frnka coached teams? Cause he's the last coach to have three consecutive winning seasons at Tulane. (I that's 70 yrs ago?) Yes, I want more, but we still haven't repeated that...and we're on this board demanding to have multiple consecutive 9-10 win seasons. Sure, we want to go from good to great, that would be great. Right now, and this is nothing against our QB's, but we've had transfers: Banks, McM, and Howard, who had to sit out a year (how much does one lose sitting out?) then sit while waiting for playing time. Transfers don't really get to 'develop' within the system (too well), do they? We've got some very good QB's on board and commits, so the future looks better than ever for this position. Let's get to three winning seasons in a row, another bowl win, and continue building (if a conf championship comes, well wouldn't that be sweet? ).

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by wavedom »

gerryb323 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:39 am
wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:14 am
long green wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:14 pm
When are we going to act like winners? When we no longer think 6-6 is a good regular season. Fritz is doing a good job and deserves support. But he's yet to take the next step. If 1309 thinks he has already he's the one with the problem.
You are correct. Certainly we have improved and everyone hopes we take that big leap to true conference champion contender on a regular basis and conference champions once every 4-5 years and Fritz stays for the next decade or so. Unfortunately we have too many who suffer with low bar syndrome.It's year 5. It 's time to take a leap this season. Have expectations. It's the only way a program grows. Hell even WF has called out those with such low expectations.
Sorry, LG is looking at the buyout wrong. If you still want WF here in the next 2 years, you're certainly going to want him here in 5-7.
Right but I'm not addressing the buyout. I'm addressing what winning really is.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by wavedom »

Marathon Wave wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:58 am
How many on this board were alive to watch the Frnka coached teams? Cause he's the last coach to have three consecutive winning seasons at Tulane. (I that's 70 yrs ago?) Yes, I want more, but we still haven't repeated that...and we're on this board demanding to have multiple consecutive 9-10 win seasons. Sure, we want to go from good to great, that would be great. Right now, and this is nothing against our QB's, but we've had transfers: Banks, McM, and Howard, who had to sit out a year (how much does one lose sitting out?) then sit while waiting for playing time. Transfers don't really get to 'develop' within the system (too well), do they? We've got some very good QB's on board and commits, so the future looks better than ever for this position. Let's get to three winning seasons in a row, another bowl win, and continue building (if a conf championship comes, well wouldn't that be sweet? ).

At this level of competition it's not much to ask for 9-10 wins. Don't give in to low bar syndrome. it makes one part of the problem.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by DCGreenie »

Rotorooter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:52 pm
Fritz has not been a good hire--he's been a great hire. We were in the football toilet ever since Katrina. We are now contenders and tied for the western division championship in his third season. We are contenders, albeit a dark horse. We need consistency, stability and, yes, sustainability in the worst way. If we can compete in the AAC, our program will continue to improve.

Our talent level at RB is 5, FIVE, deep. If there is any criticism, it is at QB talent and depth. Our lines are competitive and have depth. When changes are made, they are for the better (OC, OL coach). We have successfully worked the transfer system. All things seem to be going in a positive direction. The only concern is keeping capable assistants -- paying assistants competitive salaries. Every program has that problem. I would be willing to bet that Willie has several names if and when Hall leaves.

I'm glad Tulane has shown the foresight to give WF an extension and that he signed it. I don't see him getting lazy and I think he has a competitive fire to get things done.
We were in the toilet long before Katrina, as you well know. No, I haven't discounted the Hawaii Bowl win.

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

9-10 wins consecutively is really hard to pull off. UCF has done it lately and Cinci has a streak going, but for every team that does that, somebody else has to be in the gutter and plenty of others have to be mediocre. That's just math. Those two programs have also had some really bad lows in the not so distant past.

We should expect double digit win seasons as the upper bound every few years and bowl eligibility every year as the bottom. As you build a program, you should get the right alignment of talent, experience, depth and schedule that align for a special season. We are in year 5. If it doesn't happen by end of year 6, I don't think we should look for Fritz to get us there. Six seasons is plenty to turn the corner from bad to average, and then again from average to great. Making the first jump is a good start, but the second is the destination.

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Rotorooter »

long green wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:46 am
My concern with the buyout clause in this extension is this (and only this): In the unlikely event that things go south on this program I want Tulane to have the flexibility to make a move if they have to. I’d hate for us either to shell out precious money or squander precious time hoping we don’t have to shell out the precious money.
AKA the Ellender syndrome.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by CT Wave »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am
Six seasons is plenty to turn the corner from bad to average, and then again from average to great. Making the first jump is a good start, but the second is the destination.
Can't agree that six years are "plenty". Might be possible to go from bad to great in six years, but it is not easy. Agree that we want to be great, but I am OK if we are not there in year six.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Poseidon »

CT Wave wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am
Six seasons is plenty to turn the corner from bad to average, and then again from average to great. Making the first jump is a good start, but the second is the destination.
Can't agree that six years are "plenty". Might be possible to go from bad to great in six years, but it is not easy. Agree that we want to be great, but I am OK if we are not there in year six.
We were spoiled with '98 season. There were two main differences with the '98 season and say '19 or '20. First, we had an offense that no one was ready for. Second, we played zero ranked teams. Am I saying the '19 version of the wave is a good as '98? NO WAY. I am saying give the '19 version of the wave the '98 schedule and they are 9-2. Heck, give the '19 team the '13 schedule and we are probably 9-3. Last year Auburn, UCF, SMU, Memphis, and Navy were all ranked at some point during the season.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by WaveProf »

Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:34 pm
I am saying give the '19 version of the wave the '98 schedule and they are 9-2. Heck, give the '19 team the '13 schedule and we are probably 9-3. Last year Auburn, UCF, SMU, Memphis, and Navy were all ranked at some point during the season.
Yes. This is the hole in wavedom's logic of "9 wins isn't that much to ask for at 'this' level." "This" level is actually pretty darn competitive.

Our fanbase is more or less made up of two, extreme, knee jerk responses:
(A) we've been so bad we shouldn't complain about 6 wins or
(B) by gosh we deserve to win 10 every year!

A is problematic because it sets the bar too los. B is problematic because it is irrational and unreasonable and doesn't look at the landscape through any kind of complexity.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

CT Wave wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am
Six seasons is plenty to turn the corner from bad to average, and then again from average to great. Making the first jump is a good start, but the second is the destination.
Can't agree that six years are "plenty". Might be possible to go from bad to great in six years, but it is not easy. Agree that we want to be great, but I am OK if we are not there in year six.
Maybe, but six years gives you time to turn over the roster multiple times and build a very strong culture. Cinci turned things around in two. UCF the same. Sure we have been bad for a long time, but six years is an eternity in college football. More than anything though, history says the heights you reach by years five and six are likely your ceiling as a coach. Nobody can come up with examples breaking this rule besides Beamer for a reason. It just doesn't happen very often that a coach hits a plateau and then suddenly turns it on again.

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Johnny Mac »

CT Wave wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:28 pm
You say not for a decade, but from 2002 until Coach Fritz in 2018, our only winning season was under CCJ in 2013 at 7-6. Sure seemed like a dumpster fire.
windy said he'd take 7-6 FOR a decade.. I was saying "no" to that, two years of it is sufficient, we need higher aspirations
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by WaveProf »

tulaneoutlaw wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:28 pm
Nobody can come up with examples breaking this rule besides Beamer for a reason. It just doesn't happen very often that a coach hits a plateau and then suddenly turns it on again.
Mostly agree with this, but I might add that Virginia Tech is also one of the few schools to be in AS bad of a place for AS long of a time as we were. UCF and Cincy turned around in 2 years, but they hadn't been in the awful place for decades and decades. In that regard, Va Tech might be a good parralel for a place that needed longer to reach great, and might explain a plateau before getting there.

On the flipside, with the Beamer exception, the plateua was partially explained by moving from independent to Big East (and playing a tougher schedule), so that makes it a unique situation in another way as well. The plateau may have partially been less about growth and more about playing more tough teams.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by CT Wave »

WaveProf wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:54 pm
tulaneoutlaw wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:28 pm
Nobody can come up with examples breaking this rule besides Beamer for a reason. It just doesn't happen very often that a coach hits a plateau and then suddenly turns it on again.
Mostly agree with this, but I might add that Virginia Tech is also one of the few schools to be in AS bad of a place for AS long of a time as we were. UCF and Cincy turned around in 2 years, but they hadn't been in the awful place for decades and decades. In that regard, Va Tech might be a good parralel for a place that needed longer to reach great, and might explain a plateau before getting there.

On the flipside, with the Beamer exception, the plateua was partially explained by moving from independent to Big East (and playing a tougher schedule), so that makes it a unique situation in another way as well. The plateau may have partially been less about growth and more about playing more tough teams.
In my opinion, breaking this "rule" is so hard because teams that are bad for a long time are bad for a reason (or two) -- poor location, bad facilities, admin does not care, poor conference, lack of resources, etc. When that team moves from bad to good, most of the negatives are still there. It isn't necessarily that the coach cannot get his team to great. I am suggesting the overall situation makes it difficult to move to great in six years.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by waverider »

7-6 for a decade would be underachieving. 7 regular season wins this year would mean only 4 losses, but going forward I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to expect 8 or 9 wins regularly with a 10 or 11 win season every 2-3 years. As pointed out, in our current conference situation, winning 9 regular season games should have us as conf champ contenders most seasons and could maintain “top 25 program” status. Once we win 8 or 9 consistently then we can start to expect 10 wins more frequently.

It’s not just win totals, but I’d love to get to the point that we are no longer picked middle of the pack because that’s “what's expected”. Success will be when teams know winning the conference means having to beat Tulane.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Sophandros »

PeteRasche wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:38 am
QuarterbackU wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:41 am
-Start 4-0 and have Tulane in the Top 25 (with three wins on national TV: ESPN2, ABC, and ESPN).
I've seen a few people talk about this idea here... I don't know that we would we be Top 25 if we start out with wins against South Alabama, Southern Miss, a Navy team that looked horrible in its other high-profile game, and a Houston team that went 4-8 last year and is riddled with inactive players with COVID. I realize we are "benefiting" :? from the lack of other teams playing right now, but I can't see us leapfrogging 6 or 7 or 10 other teams that quickly, no matter how good we look... and by the time that Houston win rolls around, the SEC will be back playing and sucking up every second of media/voter attention.

Don't get me wrong, I will take a ranking if it comes and I certainly will take 4-0 whether it brings a ranking or not... I just don't know that we're that we're that "noticed" yet. And the whole country is going to be watching the SEC (if for no other reason than to see how they are handling COVID).
Every team who is undefeated after playing four games will be ranked this season because almost half the division isn't playing right now.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by wavedom »

WaveProf wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:44 pm
Poseidon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:34 pm
I am saying give the '19 version of the wave the '98 schedule and they are 9-2. Heck, give the '19 team the '13 schedule and we are probably 9-3. Last year Auburn, UCF, SMU, Memphis, and Navy were all ranked at some point during the season.
Yes. This is the hole in wavedom's logic of "9 wins isn't that much to ask for at 'this' level." "This" level is actually pretty darn competitive.

Our fanbase is more or less made up of two, extreme, knee jerk responses:
(A) we've been so bad we shouldn't complain about 6 wins or
(B) by gosh we deserve to win 10 every year!

A is problematic because it sets the bar too los. B is problematic because it is irrational and unreasonable and doesn't look at the landscape through any kind of complexity.
No hole in my logic. Yes we get a few teams ranked but rarely is there even one in the top 10. we usually end with 2 or 3 in the rankings and usuall a couple of those are between 20-25. The conference is pretty good but there are holes in it every year. We are no longer scheduling body bag games. We had two winnable P5 games this year. We should be able to get there if the program is being built properly. It should certainly be the goal and it is attainable.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by WaveProf »

wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 pm

No hole in my logic.
In your mind, there never is :angel:
wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 pm
Yes we get a few teams ranked but rarely is there even one in the top 10. we usually end with 2 or 3 in the rankings and usuall a couple of those are between 20-25. The conference is pretty good but there are holes in it every year. We are no longer scheduling body bag games. We had two winnable P5 games this year. We should be able to get there if the program is being built properly. It should certainly be the goal and it is attainable.
By your own evaluation, we play 2-3 ranked teams in AAC a year plus 2 P5 games a year. I'd add that we also usually have a couple more teams in conference on the bubble of top 25, but I'll ignore that for now. That means out of 4-5 such games you EXPECT to win OVER half EVERY single year AND run the table against all of the "easier" teams. Yeah, totally rational.

It could happen. It's probably fair to expect it TO happen on occasion. But as a yearly expectation? Puhlease
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by wavedom »

WaveProf wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:38 pm
wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 pm

No hole in my logic.
In your mind, there never is :angel:
wavedom wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 pm
Yes we get a few teams ranked but rarely is there even one in the top 10. we usually end with 2 or 3 in the rankings and usuall a couple of those are between 20-25. The conference is pretty good but there are holes in it every year. We are no longer scheduling body bag games. We had two winnable P5 games this year. We should be able to get there if the program is being built properly. It should certainly be the goal and it is attainable.
By your own evaluation, we play 2-3 ranked teams in AAC a year plus 2 P5 games a year. I'd add that we also usually have a couple more teams in conference on the bubble of top 25, but I'll ignore that for now. That means out of 4-5 such games you EXPECT to win OVER half EVERY single year AND run the table against all of the "easier" teams. Yeah, totally rational.

It could happen. It's probably fair to expect it TO happen on occasion. But as a yearly expectation? Puhlease
Pot calling the kettle black. :angel:

First off I didn't say we play 2-3 ranked AAC teams a year. I said the AAC usually has that many in the final rankings. We don't play everybody in the conference every year. We skip Cincy this year. So we might play 1-2. You then mention we usually have a couple more on the bubble of the top 25 and that you would ignore that but then include them . I'll point out we were #26 at one point last year. Turns out we weren't a good team. Next have you ever seen #1 play # 25? Usually ends bad for #25 by a good margin. So saying ranked team is like saying oh our opponent was a Bowl team last year. So what 78 teams make Bowls. It matters what Bowl they were in. It also matters where a team was ranked. Top 10 is impressive. Top 15 pretty good. 16-20 Above average. 20-25 ok. Teams with votes no big deal. Plus we are no longer scheduling that Top 10 body bag game. The two this year likely wouldn't be ranked teams in a normal year. So we might play 1-3 ranked teams and all will be below 15 and likely between 21-25. So teams with good traits but also have flaws that make them beatable. So yes it's doable. I'd note too that I didn't say every year but should be able to do with regularity. There will be years where we lose a lot of key players and those are 6 win years.
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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by doncecco »

Bring home da Wave!

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Re: FRITZ EXTENSION

Post by Baywave1 »

I'm not nuts about what was originally an eight year extension. However when you have fewer chips, you have to know when it makes sense to go all in when you're playing table stakes. Fritz is a great coach so I get why TD and Tulane decided to do this to keep him (or get an ungodly amount of coin from a buyout to find the next coach.) Yes, risk is Fritz stays and flops (or just performs at a soso level while riding into the sunset.)

I think it was a big mistake when Tulane fired Ellender. However it was all about his unwillingness to change some assistants and potentially "modify" his style of play. Ellender almost certainly believed Tulane would never fire him.

When faced with the same circumstance, Fritz brought in Hall. So although Fritz is definitely a formula/process guy to enjoy continued success, he made the hard decision on his own to change when he had to.

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