Dannen and Fritz to Kansas?

[wavedom]

Agree that Dannen has been pretty open about the need for football to drive everything else and slowly but surely it has done so. You have to expect that he is going to be courted for other jobs if he has any success and that he is going to eventually go to a P5 school. You could certainly make an argument that AD's have a shelf life and get stale eventually. Rick Dickson provided stability during the "review" and during Katrina but stayed for years longer than he should have. Dannen coming in gave the program a jolt of energy that it needed.

I don't see why a school would keep an interim at this point. It not only tanks the next season but more importantly tanks recruiting for a full year since signing day is now in December. Getting someone in permanently now gets you a full recruiting year as well.

Let's be clear RD did not provide stability. He didn't even know the review was going on and when he finally found out and realized he was about to lose his easy job he made a bunch of promises that couldn't be kept. He was given benchmarks to meet within 5 years or we were going D-III. Katrina saved Tulane athletics by washing away any memory of those benchmarks as SC/RD finally realized Tulane needed sports to keep Tulane out there. What he did in the Katrina year was make the potentially good team play in a different stadium for every home game rather than take up the offer of free use of the Independence Bowl for all of our home games.

[Rotorooter]

Agree that Dannen has been pretty open about the need for football to drive everything else and slowly but surely it has done so. You have to expect that he is going to be courted for other jobs if he has any success and that he is going to eventually go to a P5 school. You could certainly make an argument that AD's have a shelf life and get stale eventually. Rick Dickson provided stability during the "review" and during Katrina but stayed for years longer than he should have. Dannen coming in gave the program a jolt of energy that it needed.

I don't see why a school would keep an interim at this point. It not only tanks the next season but more importantly tanks recruiting for a full year since signing day is now in December. Getting someone in permanently now gets you a full recruiting year as well.

Let's be clear RD did not provide stability. He didn't even know the review was going on and when he finally found out and realized he was about to lose his easy job he made a bunch of promises that couldn't be kept. He was given benchmarks to meet within 5 years or we were going D-III. Katrina saved Tulane athletics by washing away any memory of those benchmarks as SC/RD finally realized Tulane needed sports to keep Tulane out there. What he did in the Katrina year was make the potentially good team play in a different stadium for every home game rather than take up the offer of free use of the Independence Bowl for all of our home games.

RD DID provide stability--much like Castro provided stability for Cuba.

[TUPF]

He got the football program to a place where they get 6-7 wins. No Complaints there but I don’t think it’s an incredible feat.
Basketball he made an awful hire of Dunleavy. Jury still out on Ron Hunter but I was satisfied with that hire.
TJ wasn’t fired after 27-31, 25-33 or 32-26 against a weak schedule.

I've been a Tulane fan since 1974. If sustained Tulane football success were easy I would have seen it sometime in that 47 year period. "Incredible" may be overblown but not really considering our sustained programmatic incompetence. Institutionally we couldn't even sustain success after an undefeated season. Football drives the AD bus and right now we are at least on the proper highway.

Men's Basketball. I can see why Dannen made the splash hire with an old NBA name but thankfully he recognized the right answer when shown and cut our losses. Hunter talked a good game and has a track record of doing lots with little but given the sea change in NCAA basketball transfer rules he is going to either figure it out very soon or die (professionally) trying.

Baseball. If I put myself in Dannen's place I'm thinking 15-2, patience has paid dividends after a mildly mediocre third season with Jewitt at the helm. Yay, me. Now I'm biting my tongue and thinking barring some 20 game win run the Jewitt experiment is over in May.

Women's Basketball. While the moneyball football and to a lesser extent MBB hogged Dannen's attention I can forgive him for being satisfied with the program performance for the last few years. Yet there is something not quite right there and Lisa should get her gold watch, a nice send off, and kicked upstairs in some consulting role.

[gerryb323]

Well said TUPF

[visualmagic]

He got the football program to a place where they get 6-7 wins. No Complaints there but I don’t think it’s an incredible feat.
Basketball he made an awful hire of Dunleavy. Jury still out on Ron Hunter but I was satisfied with that hire.
TJ wasn’t fired after 27-31, 25-33 or 32-26 against a weak schedule.

I've been a Tulane fan since 1974. If sustained Tulane football success were easy I would have seen it sometime in that 47 year period. "Incredible" may be overblown but not really considering our sustained programmatic incompetence. Institutionally we couldn't even sustain success after an undefeated season. Football drives the AD bus and right now we are at least on the proper highway.

Men's Basketball. I can see why Dannen made the splash hire with an old NBA name but thankfully he recognized the right answer when shown and cut our losses. Hunter talked a good game and has a track record of doing lots with little but given the sea change in NCAA basketball transfer rules he is going to either figure it out very soon or die (professionally) trying.

Baseball. If I put myself in Dannen's place I'm thinking 15-2, patience has paid dividends after a mildly mediocre third season with Jewitt at the helm. Yay, me. Now I'm biting my tongue and thinking barring some 20 game win run the Jewitt experiment is over in May.

Women's Basketball. While the moneyball football and to a lesser extent MBB hogged Dannen's attention I can forgive him for being satisfied with the program performance for the last few years. Yet there is something not quite right there and Lisa should get her gold watch, a nice send off, and kicked upstairs in some consulting role.

7-6,7-6,6-6 again I’m not complaining but is that really sustained success? You have definitely seen better 3 year stretches since 74.
20-18 in football isn’t good enough for me to do like you did and essentially look past all the legitimate criticisms of him.
You highlight the things he did that you like such as recognizing the Dunleavy mistake and firing him but you explain away the bad decisions.

[PeteRasche]

Vm, besides keeping Jewett this long, what else do you consider "bad" decisions? Just curious.

IMO, there's probably no AD anywhere who is going to fire a non-football coach (or MBB at a school with no FBS football) after three years or less barring some sort of scandal. Firing and hiring comes with a cost and it's just not worth it. Heck, if Dunleavy won even 7 or 8 games that year (or just grabbed a few late in the year) he probably wouldn't have been canned.

[TUPF]

He got the football program to a place where they get 6-7 wins. No Complaints there but I don’t think it’s an incredible feat.
Basketball he made an awful hire of Dunleavy. Jury still out on Ron Hunter but I was satisfied with that hire.
TJ wasn’t fired after 27-31, 25-33 or 32-26 against a weak schedule.

I've been a Tulane fan since 1974. If sustained Tulane football success were easy I would have seen it sometime in that 47 year period. "Incredible" may be overblown but not really considering our sustained programmatic incompetence. Institutionally we couldn't even sustain success after an undefeated season. Football drives the AD bus and right now we are at least on the proper highway.

Men's Basketball. I can see why Dannen made the splash hire with an old NBA name but thankfully he recognized the right answer when shown and cut our losses. Hunter talked a good game and has a track record of doing lots with little but given the sea change in NCAA basketball transfer rules he is going to either figure it out very soon or die (professionally) trying.

Baseball. If I put myself in Dannen's place I'm thinking 15-2, patience has paid dividends after a mildly mediocre third season with Jewitt at the helm. Yay, me. Now I'm biting my tongue and thinking barring some 20 game win run the Jewitt experiment is over in May.

Women's Basketball. While the moneyball football and to a lesser extent MBB hogged Dannen's attention I can forgive him for being satisfied with the program performance for the last few years. Yet there is something not quite right there and Lisa should get her gold watch, a nice send off, and kicked upstairs in some consulting role.

7-6,7-6,6-6 again I’m not complaining but is that really sustained success? You have definitely seen better 3 year stretches since 74.
20-18 in football isn’t good enough for me to do like you did and essentially look past all the legitimate criticisms of him.
You highlight the things he did that you like such as recognizing the Dunleavy mistake and firing him but you explain away the bad decisions.

Don't put words in my mouth (keyboard). If there were better three years runs in football they may have been while I was running around submerged guaranteeing your ability to b!tch about inconsequential things. Point taken but success obviously was not sustained if one has to isolate individual three-year snippets out of 47 years.

Are there legitimate criticisms? You bet. I'm not explaining away anything. However, others here who have the propensity for forensic YOGWF digs can surface reaction when Fitts hired Dannen. We were ecstatic to have anyone who could bring a semblance of professionalism, inspired leadership, and decisive action to Ben Weiner Drive. Dannen did that. Has he had too slow a trigger on non-money sports like baseball and WBB? Definitely in the first, most probably in the second. Yet I believe for the money sports and conference maneuvering that matter for the continued survival and eventual prosperity of all Tulane sports he has done mostly the right things. I'd give him a B-. Being kind, Dickson was a D-. I'm not willing to send a person packing for a B- and obviously neither has President Fitts. Show me any job where you get sent packing or not renewed for a B- performance without a slam dunk A performer already signed up.

[noladave]

Do we politely ask Dannen to leave now that we know he doesn't want to be here ? Curious if we had a shortlist in mind in case he took the KU job.

I don't understand the Dannen "hate" (disdain), I really don't. I know the arguments against, but is an AD ever perfect? His big bet is on bringing football back to prominence. Has it panned out? Jury is still out. It has taken longer than expected, but we are certainly a laughing stock no longer. The next football coach, when we need one, will not be our fifth choice. He quickly corrects his mistakes (I think TJ would be gone if not for a 15-2 start last season and for COVID). Honestly, why the desire to get rid of him?

Agree 100%. Tulane athletics are now professionally run. No thin skinned bureaucrat with no leadership vision and no inspirational skills. Has TD batted 1000? Certainly not. But after a wandering in the wilderness and wondering "WTF did he do this time (?)" we have an athletic organization led by a grownup.

The one thing I will disagree with is thin skinned comment. TD is absolutely thin skinned, can’t stand any personal criticism. And it’s not just TD, as a whole, the Athletic Department spends way too much time monitoring social media, looking to punish people for any criticism. I know from experience. This management team, as have previous teams, want to know the personal names of posters on this board. It never stops.

[TUPF]

Do we politely ask Dannen to leave now that we know he doesn't want to be here ? Curious if we had a shortlist in mind in case he took the KU job.

I don't understand the Dannen "hate" (disdain), I really don't. I know the arguments against, but is an AD ever perfect? His big bet is on bringing football back to prominence. Has it panned out? Jury is still out. It has taken longer than expected, but we are certainly a laughing stock no longer. The next football coach, when we need one, will not be our fifth choice. He quickly corrects his mistakes (I think TJ would be gone if not for a 15-2 start last season and for COVID). Honestly, why the desire to get rid of him?

Agree 100%. Tulane athletics are now professionally run. No thin skinned bureaucrat with no leadership vision and no inspirational skills. Has TD batted 1000? Certainly not. But after a wandering in the wilderness and wondering "WTF did he do this time (?)" we have an athletic organization led by a grownup.

The one thing I will disagree with is thin skinned comment. TD is absolutely thin skinned, can’t stand any personal criticism. And it’s not just TD, as a whole, the Athletic Department spends way too much time monitoring social media, looking to punish people for any criticism. I know from experience. This management team, as have previous teams, want to know the personal names of posters on this board. It never stops.

Thanks for that info. My only comparison was Dickson with his very public skivvies in a wad during a press conference over fan reactions. If they want names you can give them mine. I've never been shy. Still no reason to can someone as long as they are doing their job. The moment he isn't doing his job being thin skinned is just another log on the fire.

[tulaneoutlaw]

Wow noladave. That's astonishing that anybody would care to know our personal names. You would think this group would be the last thing on anybody in Wilson Center's mind

[noladave]

I realize I may have come on too strong, and nobody is 100% good or evil, myself included. List the pros and cons. Dannen and Fritz definitely have some positives. They also have some negatives.

Dickson was definitely an us or them kind of guy, we all saw that. Dannen is much more refined, less crude, and will have others do his dirty work, but is still an us or them guy.

[visualmagic]

Vm, besides keeping Jewett this long, what else do you consider "bad" decisions? Just curious.

IMO, there's probably no AD anywhere who is going to fire a non-football coach (or MBB at a school with no FBS football) after three years or less barring some sort of scandal. Firing and hiring comes with a cost and it's just not worth it. Heck, if Dunleavy won even 7 or 8 games that year (or just grabbed a few late in the year) he probably wouldn't have been canned.

Hiring Dunleavy was a bad decision. Firing him quickly doesn’t erase the bad decision that resulted in 3 years we wasted.

[visualmagic]

Don't put words in my mouth (keyboard). If there were better three years runs in football they may have been while I was running around submerged guaranteeing your ability to b!tch about inconsequential things. Point taken but success obviously was not sustained if one has to isolate individual three-year snippets out of 47 years.

Are there legitimate criticisms? You bet. I'm not explaining away anything. However, others here who have the propensity for forensic YOGWF digs can surface reaction when Fitts hired Dannen. We were ecstatic to have anyone who could bring a semblance of professionalism, inspired leadership, and decisive action to Ben Weiner Drive. Dannen did that. Has he had too slow a trigger on non-money sports like baseball and WBB? Definitely in the first, most probably in the second. Yet I believe for the money sports and conference maneuvering that matter for the continued survival and eventual prosperity of all Tulane sports he has done mostly the right things. I'd give him a B-. Being kind, Dickson was a D-. I'm not willing to send a person packing for a B- and obviously neither has President Fitts. Show me any job where you get sent packing or not renewed for a B- performance without a slam dunk A performer already signed up.

I Never said he should be sent packing. I agree that it’s unrealistic to ask for him to be fired. Which is why I wanted Kansas to take him off our hands.
I’d probably give him a C+

[krewe of ham and eggs]

I realize I may have come on too strong, and nobody is 100% good or evil, myself included. List the pros and cons. Dannen and Fritz definitely have some positives. They also have some negatives.

Dickson was definitely an us or them kind of guy, we all saw that. Dannen is much more refined, less crude, and will have others do his dirty work, but is still an us or them guy.

Rick Dickson had the leadership qualities of a potato combined with the personality of a wet sock.

[ml wave]

Wow noladave. That's astonishing that anybody would care to know our personal names. You would think this group would be the last thing on anybody in Wilson Center's mind

Well, someone around here is giving out our personal names.

[visualmagic]

Do we politely ask Dannen to leave now that we know he doesn't want to be here ? Curious if we had a shortlist in mind in case he took the KU job.

I don't understand the Dannen "hate" (disdain), I really don't. I know the arguments against, but is an AD ever perfect? His big bet is on bringing football back to prominence. Has it panned out? Jury is still out. It has taken longer than expected, but we are certainly a laughing stock no longer. The next football coach, when we need one, will not be our fifth choice. He quickly corrects his mistakes (I think TJ would be gone if not for a 15-2 start last season and for COVID). Honestly, why the desire to get rid of him?

Agree 100%. Tulane athletics are now professionally run. No thin skinned bureaucrat with no leadership vision and no inspirational skills. Has TD batted 1000? Certainly not. But after a wandering in the wilderness and wondering "WTF did he do this time (?)" we have an athletic organization led by a grownup.

The one thing I will disagree with is thin skinned comment. TD is absolutely thin skinned, can’t stand any personal criticism. And it’s not just TD, as a whole, the Athletic Department spends way too much time monitoring social media, looking to punish people for any criticism. I know from experience. This management team, as have previous teams, want to know the personal names of posters on this board. It never stops.

Pathetic

[GSx]

TD is absolutely thin skinned, can’t stand any personal criticism.

Yep he blocked me on twitter for "why in the world are we scheduling ULL."
Anyway, I think his biggest weakness is lack of fundraising (except squeezing season ticket holders)/facilities improvements.

[Rotorooter]

Vm, besides keeping Jewett this long, what else do you consider "bad" decisions? Just curious.

IMO, there's probably no AD anywhere who is going to fire a non-football coach (or MBB at a school with no FBS football) after three years or less barring some sort of scandal. Firing and hiring comes with a cost and it's just not worth it. Heck, if Dunleavy won even 7 or 8 games that year (or just grabbed a few late in the year) he probably wouldn't have been canned.

Hiring Dunleavy was a bad decision. Firing him quickly doesn’t erase the bad decision that resulted in 3 years we wasted.

Dunleavy was fired for the following reasons:
1. Winning only 4 games;
2. Not pressing the flesh of alums and generally not "playing the game";
3. Not willing to make the necessary changes after winning only 4 games that would make things improve. IOW, a very cavalier attitude;
4. P!ssing off former basketball alums to the point where they had no more to do with TU basketball until he left;

Of all of these reasons, #3 probably weighed the heaviest. No one thought it was a bad hire AT THE TIME. If so, show me the thread, not revisionist history. It was only after the team tanked at the end of his first season did things start to sour. It got worse until it was clear he was out of his depth at the beginning of his third year. I am not a fan of firing coaches until the end of the season (if they don't break their morals clause), so TD did it as soon as practicable. The guy gets on campus and has to hire 4 coaches in his first 10 months while cleaning house in the Athletics Dept of all the deadwood.

As for the thin skin, not great, but really, who cares? I donate or I don't. I do it for Tulane, not for who the AD is (But maybe the President). I could not care less what they think of what I say. Maybe if I lived in NOLA and got $h!tty season tix, I might care, but other than that, meh.

[visualmagic]

Vm, besides keeping Jewett this long, what else do you consider "bad" decisions? Just curious.

IMO, there's probably no AD anywhere who is going to fire a non-football coach (or MBB at a school with no FBS football) after three years or less barring some sort of scandal. Firing and hiring comes with a cost and it's just not worth it. Heck, if Dunleavy won even 7 or 8 games that year (or just grabbed a few late in the year) he probably wouldn't have been canned.

Hiring Dunleavy was a bad decision. Firing him quickly doesn’t erase the bad decision that resulted in 3 years we wasted.

No one thought it was a bad hire AT THE TIME. If so, show me the thread, not revisionist history

The search function on this board is not working for me to find that thread but I’ll find it eventually. I’ll bet this board was very complimentary of the hire and was willing to give it a chance. I’d bet the other board was much more critical and I’ll bet neutral boards thought it was a crazy hire too.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=15068598
Here’s Jeff Goodman with ESPN at the time saying that it was not a good hire

[waverider]

Vm, besides keeping Jewett this long, what else do you consider "bad" decisions? Just curious.

IMO, there's probably no AD anywhere who is going to fire a non-football coach (or MBB at a school with no FBS football) after three years or less barring some sort of scandal. Firing and hiring comes with a cost and it's just not worth it. Heck, if Dunleavy won even 7 or 8 games that year (or just grabbed a few late in the year) he probably wouldn't have been canned.

Hiring Dunleavy was a bad decision. Firing him quickly doesn’t erase the bad decision that resulted in 3 years we wasted.

No one thought it was a bad hire AT THE TIME. If so, show me the thread, not revisionist history

The search function on this board is not working for me to find that thread but I’ll find it eventually. I’ll bet this board was very complimentary of the hire and was willing to give it a chance. I’d bet the other board was much more critical and I’ll bet neutral boards thought it was a crazy hire too.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=15068598
Here’s Jeff Goodman with ESPN at the time saying that it was not a good hire

I seem to remember quite a bit of posters questioning the hire on this board. Namely, the lack of college head coaching experience coupled with not coaching at any level for a few years raised questions. A lot of people thought, or hoped, his name would bring more positive attention to the program.
Dannen stated at the time that the biggest factor was that he was a “basketball name” that most fans would recognize and would start coming to games because of it. His goal was getting fans more involved since attendance had dwindled. IMO, he overestimated the draw of his name and underestimated the fans’ desire to come out to watch a winner regardless of the coach’s name.

[randymc]

seems to me that Troy Dannen has guided Tulane sports through a difficult financial year since COVID threatened to rip the heart out of college sports' income over the past 12 months. Plus, the fact that Coach Fritz has established a solid base line for the football program and upgraded recruiting and the won-loss record from such dismal coaches of our recent past like Bob Toledo, Chris Scelfo and CJ deserves praise not vitriol for both men's leadership.

[Rotorooter]

seems to me that Troy Dannen has guided Tulane sports through a difficult financial year since COVID threatened to rip the heart out of college sports' income over the past 12 months. Plus, the fact that Coach Fritz has established a solid base line for the football program and upgraded recruiting and the won-loss record from such dismal coaches of our recent past like Bob Toledo, Chris Scelfo and CJ deserves praise not vitriol for both men's leadership.

Stop it, randy, you're ruining the negative waves.

[visualmagic]

seems to me that Troy Dannen has guided Tulane sports through a difficult financial year since COVID threatened to rip the heart out of college sports' income over the past 12 months. Plus, the fact that Coach Fritz has established a solid base line for the football program and upgraded recruiting and the won-loss record from such dismal coaches of our recent past like Bob Toledo, Chris Scelfo and CJ deserves praise not vitriol for both men's leadership.

Sure, Give him praise for getting football out of the cellar and be critical of the lack of progress in basketball and regression in baseball.

[NJwave]

I admit I liked the Dunleavy hire. We tried so many other routes that the outside the box hire was worth a shot. I thought he would recruit well and knows what it takes to play in the NBA. I didn’t factor in that he would coach with an NBA mindset about defense and that to an 18 year old kid his name probably meant nothing. Their parents may have known him.

[Poseidon]

I admit I liked the Dunleavy hire. We tried so many other routes that the outside the box hire was worth a shot. I thought he would recruit well and knows what it takes to play in the NBA. I didn’t factor in that he would coach with an NBA mindset about defense and that to an 18 year old kid his name probably meant nothing. Their parents may have known him.

We had some talent, but no coaching. Didnt we have two guys on the 17?? team that ended up in the nba and a another couple headed for europe. They played like there was no team practice at all. Like they just did individual developlement and threw is on the court playing man on d and create your own on offense.


You are right about the "we had to try something different" angle though.