Cincinnati Building Collapse

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PeteRasche
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Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by PeteRasche »

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 298446002/

Posting this here because I believe this is a story that's going to become more and more common unless there is a sea change among young people where they go back to learning the trades, or to studying engineering. Unfortunately I am seeing this in my work daily (engineering consulting; I design/specify but I also go out to the site to observe construction). Contracting companies around here (and regionally from what I'm told, but I imagine nationally as well) are extraordinarily shorthanded. One major company here is taking no new work that starts before June 2020, which is unheard of. This is because they simply cant find enough workers to man the jobs. What that leads to are inexperienced kids working on construction projects, who don't know how things are to be done, and site foremen who are maybe 23-25 years old who only have a few jobs under their belt but are literally the most experienced person at the site. This leads to dozens of unnecessary questions sent to the engineers (wasting everyone's time) at best, and disaster at worst.

Couple that problem with my industry, where experienced professionals are in short supply as well (during the economic downturn a decade ago, many left the field and have not returned, so we have a bunch of young, inexperienced folks and a bunch of old people retiring, and my age bracket is a rare and in-demand breed)... it leads to problems like this and the New Orleans hotel collapse.

I know there was a poster here a year or two ago who I argued with (I don't remember the name), who basically said that mechanical, electrical, structural, and civil engineering (as I know it) are dead and antiquated and unnecessary. My point at the time was "who is going to design buildings?". I'm sure tech-forward stuff is important too, but unless you want to start reading stories like the Hard Rock Hotel and this one above every week, SOMEBODY better learn it.

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doncecco
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by doncecco »

This. Biggest threat to the US economy. Not foreign trade policy, not monetary policy, not taxation, none of that will slow down the economy as quickly as not having skilled workers and technical professionals.

We are not far from the day when manufacutring and other industrial companies start shutting down because they can't physically do the work.
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TUPF
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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doncecco wrote:This. Biggest threat to the US economy. Not foreign trade policy, not monetary policy, not taxation, none of that will slow down the economy as quickly as not having skilled workers and technical professionals.
I have several nephews and a niece (and by transitive property, their parents) who contribute(d) mightily to this problem. Kids who show no interest in schooling and are not encouraged nor dare I say pushed by their parents to take and excel at STEM courses. Yet Mom and Dad were sure to buy expensive street hockey gear and travel to useless tournaments and take the niece to 8 years of expensive cheer squad competitions. Now they are in their twenties with no skills, no schooling, no prospects other than busboy and minimum wage retail jobs and the “plan to go to community college” that never happens.

We have met the enemy and it is us.
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by waverider »

Sounds like in the case of the Hard Rock, they knew what needed to be done but wanted to cut time/money.
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Johnny Mac
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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TUPF wrote:
doncecco wrote:This. Biggest threat to the US economy. Not foreign trade policy, not monetary policy, not taxation, none of that will slow down the economy as quickly as not having skilled workers and technical professionals.
I have several nephews and a niece (and by transitive property, their parents) who contribute(d) mightily to this problem. Kids who show no interest in schooling and are not encouraged nor dare I say pushed by their parents to take and excel at STEM courses. Yet Mom and Dad were sure to buy expensive street hockey gear and travel to useless tournaments and take the niece to 8 years of expensive cheer squad competitions. Now they are in their twenties with no skills, no schooling, no prospects other than busboy and minimum wage retail jobs and the “plan to go to community college” that never happens.

We have met the enemy and it is us.
tooting my own horn here, but we do the sports things and STEM, music, and art with my daughter... throw in farm camp in the summer where she actually embraces shoveling horse shiat... she is at this point (age 10) thinking more chemical engineering but if we eventually get her into this particular private school in Charlotte, she'll get to use their fab lab and who knows where that will take her? She keeps talking about MIT or Harvard (think big, right?).. I crack up when I get the random "dad, where do you think I should get my second graduate degree?" My standard answer "how 'bout we get through 4th grade, first?"

we keep my daughter impossibly occupied with stuff because we don't want her to spiral into this teenage drone who is affixed to a laptop. phone or game console
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PeteRasche
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:

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TUPF
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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PeteRasche wrote:JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:
JohnnyMac and Pete, you are both on the right track. At 10 my daughter wanted to be both a concert violinist and a neurosurgeon because she thought concert violinists only work at night so she’d need something to do during the day. One out of two ain’t bad.

STEM and high level music are not mutually exclusive. In fact every kid I knew who were high level musicians were also great at mathematics. As in gifted. Not sure which discipline drives which but it’s just something I’ve observed. One of my daughter’s best friends at high level summer classical music camp (cello) double majored in music and biology at Oberlin and now has her Ph.D. from MIT/Woods Hole and is pursuing a post doctorate. My daughter took the actual SAT in the 7th grade and did better than most high school seniors that year. It’s never too early to galvanize academics, high level music, and high level sports to be mutually supportive.
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Roller
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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My Brother-in-Law went into the Navy and became an MR (Machinery Repairman). When he got out, he opened a machine shop, and did quite well, designing and machining stuff for the Oil Industry (anyone who's worked an oil rig has come across several of his patented gadgets) His sons grew up immersed in the machine shop. The oldest went into he Army and earned his Green Beret. His younger brothers tagged along with him as he engaged in rock climbing, extreme snow skiing, distance running, etc.

Today, the oldest is a retired Army Colonel with a decent pension, his younger brothers signed on as whitewater rafting guides, and when the company owner retired, they bought his business. Because of the skills they learned in the machine shop, they were able to build a top of the line rafting outfitter operation, and they now run the number one rafting concern in Tennessee. The oldest, Army guy, went to college, but the others never graduated. But they are all doing great, way ahead of the averages for their contemporaries. Their Mom has a PhD in Psychology, and their dad took a few engineering courses but earned no degree.

All were above average successful, demonstrating that the need to go to college is a specious claim.

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Johnny Mac
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

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PeteRasche wrote:JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:
You'd have to spend a week in Charlotte, but if you want your daughter to do the farm camp here my daughter does, let me know.. I'll send you the link. Mine is in year 4 of doing it.
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PeteRasche
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by PeteRasche »

Johnny Mac wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:
You'd have to spend a week in Charlotte, but if you want your daughter to do the farm camp here my daughter does, let me know.. I'll send you the link. Mine is in year 4 of doing it.
Funny you bring up the camp again, the community where we live is one of few in suburbia in this region that has a working farm owned by the village itself. It's actually within walking distance of my house. My daughter has attended farm camp there in the summer since she was five, and has mucked stables herself. Only problem is it's getting overcrowded with hipsters who are all into the "farm to table" authenticity of it; the annual Sunflower Festival in the spring used to be a great place to get pictures of the family amidst fields of yellow blooms, but now you have to park down the road, take a shuttle, and you can barely got a close selfie without some flannel-wearing, bearded, fake-horn-rimmed-glasses-and-trucker-hat-wearing 20-something in the background.

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Johnny Mac
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by Johnny Mac »

the farm camp my daughter goes to is all about the horses... not so much with the planting/harvesting aspect.. in addition to mucking stalls, they have goats, turkeys, chickens and a big fat pig to feed
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by GretnaGrn »

TUPF wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:
JohnnyMac and Pete, you are both on the right track. At 10 my daughter wanted to be both a concert violinist and a neurosurgeon because she thought concert violinists only work at night so she’d need something to do during the day. One out of two ain’t bad.

STEM and high level music are not mutually exclusive. In fact every kid I knew who were high level musicians were also great at mathematics. As in gifted. Not sure which discipline drives which but it’s just something I’ve observed. One of my daughter’s best friends at high level summer classical music camp (cello) double majored in music and biology at Oberlin and now has her Ph.D. from MIT/Woods Hole and is pursuing a post doctorate. My daughter took the actual SAT in the 7th grade and did better than most high school seniors that year. It’s never too early to galvanize academics, high level music, and high level sports to be mutually supportive.
It's also worth noting that music can help even those who struggle with math. My son has started taking guitar seriously and it (along with other things) has helped him with his academic problems.

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TUPF
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Re: Cincinnati Building Collapse

Post by TUPF »

GretnaGrn wrote:
TUPF wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:JM, your daughter and mine would get along frighteningly well. Mine's also 10, in 4th grade, and already planning what types of animals she'll have on her farm someday while simultaneously killing it in math class (I'd take credit but math is often something you have to "get" so it's not just my tutoring at home).

Mine wants to be an ornithologist or aviculturist (bird zookeeper). We've explained that she probably won't make enough at either of those careers to buy a farm, so she better marry well. :lol: :lol:
JohnnyMac and Pete, you are both on the right track. At 10 my daughter wanted to be both a concert violinist and a neurosurgeon because she thought concert violinists only work at night so she’d need something to do during the day. One out of two ain’t bad.

STEM and high level music are not mutually exclusive. In fact every kid I knew who were high level musicians were also great at mathematics. As in gifted. Not sure which discipline drives which but it’s just something I’ve observed. One of my daughter’s best friends at high level summer classical music camp (cello) double majored in music and biology at Oberlin and now has her Ph.D. from MIT/Woods Hole and is pursuing a post doctorate. My daughter took the actual SAT in the 7th grade and did better than most high school seniors that year. It’s never too early to galvanize academics, high level music, and high level sports to be mutually supportive.
It's also worth noting that music can help even those who struggle with math. My son has started taking guitar seriously and it (along with other things) has helped him with his academic problems.
Good on you, Gretna. Others note the same. It must have something to do with the centers of the brain and how we are wired. There’s a Ph.D. thesis in there somewhere.
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