Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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OGSB
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Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by OGSB »

Past performance is no guarantee of future results

Yankeewave
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by Yankeewave »

i don't see how dorms can be safe until there is a treatment/vaccine

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by windywave »

This could be a good thing. Remove the dead wood from institutions individually and the sector as a whole. There are too many professors not teaching enough who have niche knowledge too much bureaucratic management, and too much opaque subsidies to further agendas.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Thanks for that, OGSB. This is an existential threat to probably at least the bottom tier endowment colleges, and even many state funded schools.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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I remember posting here several months ago that on-line and adult learning programs were the future of American universities. I spoke from the standpoint of my 13 years on the Board of Trustees of a California, private, non-profit university, fully accredited that specialized in those two things. I mentioned that that university had teamed up with some of the best Silicon Valley companies that have made great strides in how to teach and how to learn on line. I said the day was past when parents would pay $75k a year for a brick and mortar school when their kids could learn as much or more on-line and in the real world of work. WaveProf and others pooped on my head about those comments, but they are looking more and more correct now.

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Cheerleader wrote:I remember posting here several months ago that on-line and adult learning programs were the future of American universities. I spoke from the standpoint of my 13 years on the Board of Trustees of a California, private, non-profit university, fully accredited that specialized in those two things. I mentioned that that university had teamed up with some of the best Silicon Valley companies that have made great strides in how to teach and how to learn on line. I said the day was past when parents would pay $75k a year for a brick and mortar school when their kids could learn as much or more on-line and in the real world of work. WaveProf and others pooped on my head about those comments, but they are looking more and more correct now.
You were prescient, Cheerleader.

The one thing that sticks in my mind though, especially about the Ivies and maybe a handful of the near-Ivies, is what an Ivy grad once told me: one doesn’t go to a top ten college just for the education—there are many fine educations available if you work hard. No, the reason why the 1% work so hard, including legal and sometimes not so legal bribery to get in, is the lifelong network it provides. That access ensures a lifelong key to the executive washroom, instant cache, a foot in the door. It doesn’t ensure success but it provides first access.

Maybe this all shakes out and just the Top 10 or 20 or whatever survive under the old bricks and mortar model, but the great majority of schools transition to online learning at a fraction of the price and a lot of nice real estate goes on the market.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by WaveProf »

Online is not the future of higher education, though it has (for a while) and will continue to be very effective for certain markets. Trying to use this pandemic as supportive evidence for your agenda is not useful. It's actually quite angering.

Will the current situation move some institutions more toward online long term? For sure. But it will move some the opposite direction as well.

Without wasting the time to go back and read it, I'm still happy to double down on most everything I said then. And then some.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by doncecco »

They did it to themselves. Greed. No way a college education is worth what it costs most places. Time to cull the herd.
Bring home da Wave!

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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doncecco wrote:They did it to themselves. Greed. No way a college education is worth what it costs most places. Time to cull the herd.
I know you are making a point, and maybe now more so than a generation ago, but a college education is mostly worth the expenditure in the opportunities it opens and the lifetime quantum leap in earnings and social strata it opens. Is the delta as great now as it was 30-40 years ago? Probably not. But as I have counseled the teens and twenty-somethings in my family and the kids I mentor at the local high school, a college degree gives you choices that you would otherwise not have. And yes, a bachelor’s degree now probably puts you in a position that a high school diploma did fifty years ago, but that’s the arms race we are in. Until the curve between lifetime earnings goes negative between a college degree and a high school diploma I will continue to counsel my mentees to get a degree or at the very least, a bonafide trade. At least in the MidAtlantic, solely a high school diploma ensures you will struggle.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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I am not saying that a college degree is not necessary. But you don't have to do it anymore in a four year stint with dorms, 3 classes a day and lots of partying like most of us did. Sophisticated learning systems are growing and people are figuring out other ways to get educated. There is no doubt that the contacts you make and the experiences you have during your college years are very valuable. My best friends are still ones I met at Tulane (and were fraternity brothers). I'm just saying that things are different now, and there are millions of adults who need a college education, but can't quit work and go to a four year school. On-line and "hybrid" courses are the wave of the future for a lot of people. The university I was associated with even had a virtual high school. Its clients were kids who were in sports programs that demanded a lot of their time, incarcerated ones, home schoolers who had reached the limit of what their parents could teach them and kids who had extreme intelligence who didn't need to sit in a classroom 8 hours a day in order to learn. Times are changing.

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Good stuff, Cheerleader. I tell my mentees that making a go of college or a technical training apprenticeship before life gets in the way is the easiest path. It only gets harder later.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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TUPF wrote:Good stuff, Cheerleader. I tell my mentees that making a go of college or a technical training apprenticeship before life gets in the way is the easiest path. It only gets harder later.
You are right about that. You and I went into the military right after college, so it served as a buffer between college and real life. Since most don't do that these days, they need to find another way of getting mature. That will put them ahead of their competitors. Working or training in a apprenticeship, technical training, or just working at the bottom of a company is a good way to start, and I'm starting to understand and support the "year off" concept. Because, you are right, you will never have the time or lack of responsibility to do it again till you are too old. But, they also have to learn to be "poor". I never had a car, a cell phone, an apartment or took spring breaks in college because I couldn't afford them. Being without things will be a wake-up call to many of today's youth, but it will give them a bigger incentive to learn once they begin college. I practice what I preach. My two daughters were denied many luxuries while in college and both went to work immediately afterwards. They were "poor", but now both are very successful because of it, I think. Many of our contemporaries worked while in school, and we do not have college loans to pay off, and we are more grateful when life gives us a break. I'm afraid college professors and administrators are in for a shock over the next few years...fewer jobs, more responsibilities, and less pay. Except for the elite schools (and maybe Tulane is in that group), things are going to be a lot different and a lot of places are going under.

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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I tell my wife I have never had my own room. :lol:
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Come to think of it, I probably haven't either....

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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For you, Cheerleader. Actually, for all of us wondering how college education might shake out in all of this.

WSJ: Coronavirus Pushes Colleges to the Breaking Point, Forcing ‘Hard Choices’ About Education

https://apple.news/A2HfB2hi7Reyu2HTKFKsHrw
Before the pandemic, about 100 of the nation’s 1,000 private, liberal-arts colleges were likely to close over the next five years, predicted Robert Zemsky, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s graduate school of education, in “The College Stress Test,” a book published in February. He now says 200 of those schools could close in the next year.

Clemson University in South Carolina, a favorite to win the national football championship next fall if the season proceeds, gets nearly $31 million of its $128 million athletic budget from tickets, mainly football. No games, no money.
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Thanks. That article is right on point. Personally, I think all of the top tier schools should break into their endowment, fund a large scale program that can reach a lot of people through on-line with the same quality professors and classes. At my university where I was a Trustee, I championed this idea a couple of years ago, and helped persuade the Board to take $30 million from our endowment (and retained capital) to hire some really forward thinking software companies and people who are making great strides in distance learning. Unlike the bad stereotypes you read about, we found that some for-profit universities (not Phoenix) were way ahead of the curve, because they had to be competitive to get and keep students. The previous administration treated them like crooks (which very few of them are) and tried to destroy them. We ended up buying one of the best, turned it into a non profit and found their on-line program and methods were superior to ours in a lot of ways. This will save our university and put it in front of the many private schools which are going down. If I were advising Tulane, I would urge them to do this.

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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Angry Undergrads Suing Colleges

https://apple.news/AIwv1Py2GSn2nfYxqJhtfvA
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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

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By contrast, the university I was associated with was able to continue the education of the students who were registered there. And, in addition, opened up their on-line classes FOR FREE to CA students who needed to advance their degrees for three months. The on-line schedule allows you to take up to two subjects a month, but you get the whole semester of that subject in that month, because you have to work hard to get it in. Most people only take one. The program is asynchronous, which means you can go on line during the time that is convenient for you. If you think this is easy, try it sometime. It is good for a university to have a robust on line program, in addition to regular classes. Of course, if you are a research university, which Tulane is, you can't go fully on line.

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Re: Can Colleges Survive Coronavirus?

Post by Baywave1 »

Comprehensive summary in The Athletic today about operations and finances of sports programs at HBCUs. Writer provides lots of granularity about money games with FBS teams and "Classics" at neutral sites.

He raises two very salient points: these schools neither have resources nor student populations attuned to providing significant online education. One AD provides a moving account of how his school is helping its most impoverished students impacted by COVID 19. The other point has to do with declining student fees implying fewer students means less college sports at these schools.

Bonus factoid: Southern and Grambling can't afford to participate in FCS playoffs. They make too much money off Bayou Classic. A potential national championship is not worth the cost nor effort to maintain their programs and their bands.

Behind a paywall. Well worth reading.

https://theathletic.com/1796298/2020/05 ... al-status/

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