RIP Don Shula

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FW
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RIP Don Shula

Post by FW »

The GOAT

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Re: RIP Don Shula

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Yes he was. Had integrity, too. RIP.
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Re: RIP Don Shula

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FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
Using big words is not a personal attack

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Re: RIP Don Shula

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RIP (although I'm not sure on what world he's the GOAT)
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Re: RIP Don Shula

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He actually was a member of a golf club here; he would fly in with Huizenga and Marino for a round of golf (the Dolphins plane would be parked at the airport for a day, or even a long weekend. As a social member (golf membership a bit too much for my tastes) we received an announcement from the GM

He was the first HC of a team to go undefeated through the entire season. 30 years as a head coach, 26 or so with Miami. There might be greater coaches, but peers at his level are extremely few. RIP
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Re: RIP Don Shula

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gerryb323 wrote:RIP (although I'm not sure on what world he's the GOAT)
Probably the one where he has the most wins in NFL history

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Re: RIP Don Shula

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windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
10 more wins than Halas

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by long green »

If he coached my favorite team I'd say he was the best ever but Lombardi and Belicheck were/are better. Oh, so was Walsh. Oh, and quite probably Joe Gibbs, too.
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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by Baywave1 »

long green wrote:If he coached my favorite team I'd say he was the best ever but Lombardi and Belicheck were/are better. Oh, so was Walsh. Oh, and quite probably Joe Gibbs, too.
Perhaps if we're just counting rings; but Shula enjoyed outsized success with more than one team. That reduces the randomness of just being in the right place at the right time. Plus Shula started winning big at a very young coaching age. (Unlike say Belicheck, he didn't have any bumps from OJT.) None of your alternatives either won in multiple places or did it very young.

Although only a winner in Boston, I'd give it to Belicheck for producing fabulous results for a longer period and doing it against a larger population of league teams and a much stiffer extended playoff system than say especially Lombardi before the NFL-AFL merger.

I never rooted for any of these teams so it's all academic to me but still interesting in this time of replays and live Korean baseball.

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Re: RIP Don Shula

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I have no skin in this debate but I wonder if the times have also changed greatly in terms of upper management/ownership having more effect on success today, not just coaching (Al Davis, Jerry Jones, et al.) I suspect through much of Shula's day, owners and maybe even GMs were mostly invisible and just signed paychecks. I'm wondering out loud here because I certainly don't know, I was a little kid in those days.

In other words I wonder, if another coach had been in New England in the past 15 years with the same ownership and players, might the Pats still have won big. Whereas I suspect a lesser coach in Shula's shoes might not have won like he did.

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by gerryb323 »

PeteRasche wrote:I have no skin in this debate but I wonder if the times have also changed greatly in terms of upper management/ownership having more effect on success today, not just coaching (Al Davis, Jerry Jones, et al.) I suspect through much of Shula's day, owners and maybe even GMs were mostly invisible and just signed paychecks. I'm wondering out loud here because I certainly don't know, I was a little kid in those days.

In other words I wonder, if another coach had been in New England in the past 15 years with the same ownership and players, might the Pats still have won big. Whereas I suspect a lesser coach in Shula's shoes might not have won like he did.
If we're following that logic we're almost certainly giving it to Halas
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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by ml wave »

PeteRasche wrote:I have no skin in this debate but I wonder if the times have also changed greatly in terms of upper management/ownership having more effect on success today, not just coaching (Al Davis, Jerry Jones, et al.) I suspect through much of Shula's day, owners and maybe even GMs were mostly invisible and just signed paychecks. I'm wondering out loud here because I certainly don't know, I was a little kid in those days.

In other words I wonder, if another coach had been in New England in the past 15 years with the same ownership and players, might the Pats still have won big. Whereas I suspect a lesser coach in Shula's shoes might not have won like he did.
I think the opposite, actually...before salary cap/free agency your talent evaluation was even more critical--you find/draft/sign a good player, he's yours for as long as you want. Shula was a great coach but what Belichick has done in this era is incomparable.

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by windywave »

FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
10 more wins than Halas
Halas better winning percentage and more championships
Using big words is not a personal attack

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by windywave »

gerryb323 wrote:
PeteRasche wrote:I have no skin in this debate but I wonder if the times have also changed greatly in terms of upper management/ownership having more effect on success today, not just coaching (Al Davis, Jerry Jones, et al.) I suspect through much of Shula's day, owners and maybe even GMs were mostly invisible and just signed paychecks. I'm wondering out loud here because I certainly don't know, I was a little kid in those days.

In other words I wonder, if another coach had been in New England in the past 15 years with the same ownership and players, might the Pats still have won big. Whereas I suspect a lesser coach in Shula's shoes might not have won like he did.
If we're following that logic we're almost certainly giving it to Halas
What he said
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Re: RIP Don Shula

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My top coaches in order:

1. Lombardi - "professionalized" being a pro football player and got the most from his players
2. Walsh - took a perennial loser, installed an offense that changed the game for a generation
3. Shula - consistent winner for 32 years, not easy to do, and kept his integrity
4. Belichick - wins with different personnel every season during wild free agency and a salary cap
5. Parcells - knew how to run an organization and coach it up
6. Landry - an innovator and use of computer data changed the game
7. Halas - did most of his winning in the salad days of the NFL, but still is the second winningest coach ever
8. Gibbs - great winner but almost killed himself doing it
9. Noll - underrated and may need to go higher on the list but the Rooneys ran the show
10. Coughlin - underrated as a head coach and pulled off several great upsets.
ALERT!!!
 
I'm sure all will agree with this list.
 
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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by krewe of ham and eggs »

windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
Never heard of her
AnY iMaGeS yOu PoRtRaY wIlL bE rEpReSeNtAtIvE oF tHe TeAm YoU sUpPoRt

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by long green »

Rotorooter wrote:My top coaches in order:

1. Lombardi - "professionalized" being a pro football player and got the most from his players
2. Walsh - took a perennial loser, installed an offense that changed the game for a generation
3. Shula - consistent winner for 32 years, not easy to do, and kept his integrity
4. Belichick - wins with different personnel every season during wild free agency and a salary cap
5. Parcells - knew how to run an organization and coach it up
6. Landry - an innovator and use of computer data changed the game
7. Halas - did most of his winning in the salad days of the NFL, but still is the second winningest coach ever
8. Gibbs - great winner but almost killed himself doing it
9. Noll - underrated and may need to go higher on the list but the Rooneys ran the show
10. Coughlin - underrated as a head coach and pulled off several great upsets.
ALERT!!!
 
I'm sure all will agree with this list.
 
SARCASM!
The guy who really professionalized pro football isn't on your list and should be. Paul Brown.
The gap between the top of the big leagues and their bottom is now bigger than the gap between their bottom and us - P.R. told me to do this

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by doncecco »

long green wrote:
Rotorooter wrote:My top coaches in order:

1. Lombardi - "professionalized" being a pro football player and got the most from his players
2. Walsh - took a perennial loser, installed an offense that changed the game for a generation
3. Shula - consistent winner for 32 years, not easy to do, and kept his integrity
4. Belichick - wins with different personnel every season during wild free agency and a salary cap
5. Parcells - knew how to run an organization and coach it up
6. Landry - an innovator and use of computer data changed the game
7. Halas - did most of his winning in the salad days of the NFL, but still is the second winningest coach ever
8. Gibbs - great winner but almost killed himself doing it
9. Noll - underrated and may need to go higher on the list but the Rooneys ran the show
10. Coughlin - underrated as a head coach and pulled off several great upsets.
ALERT!!!
 
I'm sure all will agree with this list.
 
SARCASM!
Belichick at worse #2 - he coached in a much more competitive era than Lombardi. Coughlin - meh,a lot of negativity around him. I mean, a helmet catch doesn't happen and he's Sean Payton. I would put Dungy or Andy Reid above Coughlin.

The guy who really professionalized pro football isn't on your list and should be. Paul Brown.
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Re: RIP Don Shula

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Past performance is no guarantee of future results

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Re: RIP Don Shula

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Had he been coaching the 70s Raiders, they would have had to forfeit.
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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by ml wave »

FW wrote:
gerryb323 wrote:RIP (although I'm not sure on what world he's the GOAT)
Probably the one where he has the most wins in NFL history
On this world is Emmitt Smith the best RB ever and Brees the best QB?

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by FW »

windywave wrote:
FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
10 more wins than Halas
Halas better winning percentage and more championships
He coached when they were the only team in the league

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by windywave »

FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
10 more wins than Halas
Halas better winning percentage and more championships
He coached when they were the only team in the league
You mean pre AFL and expansion dilution?
Using big words is not a personal attack

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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by Rotorooter »

windywave wrote:
FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:
windywave wrote:
FW wrote:The GOAT
That feeling you have is George Halas kicking you in the balls.
10 more wins than Halas
Halas better winning percentage and more championships
He coached when they were the only team in the league
You mean pre AFL and expansion dilution?
Enough with Halas. Once Lombardi got to GB, Halas was toast (historically speaking). He won in 1963, yes, but Hornung was suspended and GB lost their scoring machine. It was his only title since the 1940's. Look at their head-to-head. Not even close.

BTW, LG, you are correct on Paul Brown. I brain-farted on that one. I would put him above Gibbs.
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Re: RIP Don Shula

Post by Baywave1 »

Well if they name the team after you that should advance you to the top of the list. When the Bears change to the Halases (aka Haliases) and Miami becomes the Shulas than they will have reached Paul Brown status.

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