Pac 12 Realignment

[QuarterbackU]

I got approached and asked to give more after Cotton Bowl and wrote a check bigger than I had given cumulative in the ten years prior.

All it takes sometimes is to be asked.

I had always been one to complain here but the Green Wave Club did reach out and ask.

[1401973]

Here's the important part: Imagine that Tulane had a plan and promoted and laid out the facilities improvement plan and vision for the future

Our household gets requests for donations in the mail every day. It's not about if Tulane asked. It's about the plan. That's what will open the spigot.

[Baywave1]

Interaction between PAC 12 members is about as uncollegial as possible. Are the exiting PAC 10 worried that PAC 2 rump might change by-laws and retain all fy 2024 conference revenue? $400 million can buy alot of friends as recent ACC craziness demonstrated.

I will assume PAC 2 wins but that’s just a guess. Meanwhile Kliavkoff must reasonably believe he will be fired. So he has thrown his hand in with the exiting teams.

This has moved beyond bizarre so just trying to guess what motives of PAC 10 might be.

[PeteRasche]

Care to elaborate, bay? I've stopped paying attention.

[wavedom]

Care to elaborate, bay? I've stopped paying attention.

Pac 2 is asking for a court order stopping a meeting scheduled for the 13th. They say the bylaws state that once you give notice of intent to leave they lose their place on the board and can't vote. They say if you allow them to be at the meeting and let them vote it will do them irreparable harm.

[Baywave1]

Care to elaborate, bay? I've stopped paying attention.

There must be 150 stories about it in any internet news sport feed. This one is as good a start as any.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... int-pac-12

Dellenger is a good reporter and has more analysis
Check out the final paragraphs and read into them what you will

https://sports.yahoo.com/could-pac-12-s ... 31232.html

[WaveProf]

Judge grants temporary order preventing P12 board from meeting

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 12-meeting

[OGSB]

According to a report by Yahoo's Ross Dellenger, the two conferences are considering a European-style conference which will essentially have the Pac-12 as the higher conference and the Mountain West as the lower. So, every couple of years two teams will be dropped from the Pac-12 into the Mountain West, and two teams from the Mountain West will move up to the Pac-12.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... c02&ei=155

[PeteRasche]

Wow, there have been thousands of people suggesting relegation in college football for years, but I don't think anyone ever envisioned it just being between two conferences.

[speckled trout]

I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. If you’re in the Group of 5 you’re basically relegated already. This gives smaller schools an opportunity to win and move up.

The “relegation” league would be no worse than the current American conference

You get into the weeds when talking about possibly losing an entire recruiting class if your team gets relegated. It’s an interesting experiment but now is the time to try it with college football going down the toilet

[PeteRasche]

I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. If you’re in the Group of 5 you’re basically relegated already. This gives smaller schools an opportunity to win and move up.
(...)
You get into the weeds when talking about possibly losing an entire recruiting class if your team gets relegated.

Oh, no, it's a GREAT idea for equality and fairness. It would give the bigger leagues the chance to cut the chaff (buh-bye Rutgers, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.) and the winners a chance to move up. But the logistics are way too daunting to do for all of college football. Recruiting as you mention. Financials of being in a $50MM league one year and in a $2MM league the next? Minor sports taking the hit because of those losses. All sorts of things.

The other thing that has come out with all of this realignment is what the P5 conferences literally *require* to be a member. Facilities, number of minor sports teams, simple amount of money your university is putting into your programs every year... they aren't going to suddenly be like "that cute little school with the tiny budget caught lightning in a bottle with a star player who was the son of the coach and now they're moving up to our league, they lost their coach and graduated all their good players, but we're totally cool with playing in their 1960s-era, 11,000-seat stadium"... ya know?

It’s an interesting experiment but now is the time to try it with college football going down the toilet

And that's a fair point!

[speckled trout]

I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. If you’re in the Group of 5 you’re basically relegated already. This gives smaller schools an opportunity to win and move up.
(...)
You get into the weeds when talking about possibly losing an entire recruiting class if your team gets relegated.

Oh, no, it's a GREAT idea for equality and fairness. It would give the bigger leagues the chance to cut the chaff (buh-bye Rutgers, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.) and the winners a chance to move up. But the logistics are way too daunting to do for all of college football. Recruiting as you mention. Financials of being in a $50MM league one year and in a $2MM league the next? Minor sports taking the hit because of those losses. All sorts of things.

The other thing that has come out with all of this realignment is what the P5 conferences literally *require* to be a member. Facilities, number of minor sports teams, simple amount of money your university is putting into your programs every year... they aren't going to suddenly be like "that cute little school with the tiny budget caught lightning in a bottle with a star player who was the son of the coach and now they're moving up to our league, they lost their coach and graduated all their good players, but we're totally cool with playing in their 1960s-era, 11,000-seat stadium"... ya know?

It’s an interesting experiment but now is the time to try it with college football going down the toilet

And that's a fair point!

You make some very good points, which is why I believe this system will never catch on in major college football. The “big dogs” would fight against it because they want to limit access and exposure as much as possible for the “little guys.” The grandfathered-in dead weight (Northwestern, Vandy, Ms State, etc) will fight it because they don’t want to get relegated and end the gravy train.

For a team like Tulane, Boise, Memphis, etc I’m not sure what you have to lose. Stay trapped in the G5 and most likely die on the vine eventually, or take the financial risk on an experiment like this and have the chance to move up or down on your own accord.

Of course this is all speculation, as most things are regarding realignment. I just don’t see a lot of the smaller struggling MWC teams like San Jose St, New Mexico, Nevada, and such agreeing to this model

[MNAlum]

Relegation will only happen (directly or indirectly a la Pac 12) when ESPN/Fox/CBS (or their successors, Google or Apple?) decide to make it happen for higher profits.

[SlamDunk]

https://theathletic.com/4903436/2023/09 ... alignment/
The athletic's article on everything that went down with Big 12 expansion.
Seems like Tulane was never considered. Wish they were more proactive about realignment.

[tulaneoutlaw]

https://theathletic.com/4903436/2023/09 ... alignment/
The athletic's article on everything that went down with Big 12 expansion.
Seems like Tulane was never considered. Wish they were more proactive about realignment.

Oh I think we were likely in the "other schools list" stated in the article. Memphis and sdsu were mentioned by name but I have no doubt they considered us, smu, and Boise among others. Keep in mind they also vetted Gonzaga and uconn so no stone went unturned. We just didn't bring enough to the table, certainly not when p5 teams were available.

[speckled trout]

Tulane might have been one of the “briefly discussed” backup plan schools if Yormark’s pillaging of the four corners fell through

I would keep a watchful eye on the ACC situation. There recently has been some more smoke about Clemson leaving. If there is any legitimacy to this they will need to act fast before the 3 scavengers join next year and vote to keep the GOR together.

Clemson leaves then more will follow. Tulane needs to be ready

[tulaneoutlaw]

We should expect Clemson and fsu to leave and my bet is Miami and unc are right behind them. The question then is two fold. Is the damage limited to those 4 schools or do uva and others go to a p2 as well? And do Pitt Louisville NC st et al get a lifeline w the b12 or stay put and reconstitute the acc?

If the acc goes like the pac 12 did there won't be a home for us there. If they can hold together like the b12 last year we should have a great shot at getting in.

[PeteRasche]

There aren't enough programs in the ACC that are worth the P2 stealing (unless they jettison existing deadweight in exchange, which isn't likely). The Big 12 is about full. There would still be enough schools left in the ACC to join, and the names left would be worlds better than the current AAC. It's where we fit best and I believe (I have all along since this thread started like 7 months ago) it's where we will land as long as we keep winning.

[speckled trout]

There aren't enough programs in the ACC that are worth the P2 stealing (unless they jettison existing deadweight in exchange, which isn't likely). The Big 12 is about full. There would still be enough schools left in the ACC to join, and the names left would be worlds better than the current AAC. It's where we fit best and I believe (I have all along since this thread started like 7 months ago) it's where we will land as long as we keep winning.

Some capital investments would certainly help too. Tulane should do this anyway, but if the ACC were to come calling and say “We’ll invite you if you build a legitimate D1 basketball arena” Tulane should demolish Fogleman, play home games at the Smoothie King Center, and build a new arena with no questions asked

Ideally Tulane will be proactive and work on whatever improvements the P4’s are requiring before that time comes. They might have an opportunity to make up for 60 years of neglect in one fell swoop. Better be ready for it

[waverider]

I have been seeing reports about Clemson looking to move “sooner rather than later” so things are still in motion as the season plays on.

[waverider]

[Tulane should demolish Fogleman, play home games at the Smoothie King Center, and build a new arena with no questions asked

We can abandon Fogleman but I don’t think that building isn’t going anywhere. I don’t know the logistics of adding on vertically or reconfiguring the current set up in order to expand it within itself.

[tulaneoutlaw]

There aren't enough programs in the ACC that are worth the P2 stealing (unless they jettison existing deadweight in exchange, which isn't likely). The Big 12 is about full. There would still be enough schools left in the ACC to join, and the names left would be worlds better than the current AAC. It's where we fit best and I believe (I have all along since this thread started like 7 months ago) it's where we will land as long as we keep winning.

I hope you're right, but there's been plenty of talk about 20 team leagues already. The question for the P2 will be about money. It seems like FSU/Clemson/Miami/UNC are on the cusp of being valuable enough to warrant inclusion. They'd all jump at a deal like Oregon and Washington got if it meant a clear path to equal revenue in the mid-term. If that were to happen I'd have to think the B12 would at least consider adding Pitt, Louisville, NC St and GT to get to 20. That doesn't even mention UVA which could be in play for geography alone and Duke with their attractive basketball program the B12 seems to covet. Remember, VA and NC are the two largest population states in the country with no P2 presence. TV sets and population still matter to some degree.

Best case is only 2-4 teams go to P2s, the B12 doesn't expand and we get picked as backfill. But I don't think the scenario of an ACC left with only Cuse, BC, Wake and VT is totally off the table.

[nolasilver]

I agree that the acc won’t become the next pac 12. Especially with the additions of smu, Stanford and Berkeley. There are too many schools who fit our profile and don’t fit what the big 12, big 10 and sec are looking for.

Heck even if the doomsday theory of uva, unc, Miami, Clemson and Fsu leaving for greener pastures comes to fruition, I don’t see all of pitt, nc state, Georgia tech, Virginia tech, Louisville and duke all having landing spots.

So that leaves Syracuse, bc, wake forest, Stanford, Berkeley, SMU and my guess would be atleast nc state, Virginia tech and Georgia tech. Easy back fills would be Oregon state and Wash state and Tulane.

Timing becomes very important and is partially what doomed the pac 12. It’s better for these things to happen now then in 5 years. I want sustained winning from Tulane but our stock is high now. It is looking more and more likely Wash state and Oregon state will have $200-$300m and rebuild the pac 12 in some form.

Edit: at some point when do we look at “reconfiguring” the basketball and volleyball facility which was an absolute boondoggle. I know a new weightlifting facility is also a priority now for program, I wonder where that goes.

[wavedom]

There aren't enough programs in the ACC that are worth the P2 stealing (unless they jettison existing deadweight in exchange, which isn't likely). The Big 12 is about full. There would still be enough schools left in the ACC to join, and the names left would be worlds better than the current AAC. It's where we fit best and I believe (I have all along since this thread started like 7 months ago) it's where we will land as long as we keep winning.

Some capital investments would certainly help too. Tulane should do this anyway, but if the ACC were to come calling and say “We’ll invite you if you build a legitimate D1 basketball arena” Tulane should demolish Fogleman, play home games at the Smoothie King Center, and build a new arena with no questions asked

Ideally Tulane will be proactive and work on whatever improvements the P4’s are requiring before that time comes. They might have an opportunity to make up for 60 years of neglect in one fell swoop. Better be ready for it

Agree. On the other site a poster said earlier this week he was told by a B12 booster that the Big 12 had talked to Tulane and facility wise Tulane was asked if they could build the stadium out to 40,000 or play all conference games in the Dome and if they could build the gym out to 7,500. They preferred 10,000 but would be willing to accept 7,500. Remember before the haters scoff that poster is truly the one who found out about Cowen's plan to drop down in football. He was given a letter by a Big 12 booster signed by Cowen stating that Tulane would be canceling an upcoming game because they would be dropping down. He then passed that letter on to Board members.

[PeteRasche]

Wavedom, I don't think anyone who has been following the realignment stuff doubts that conferences are telling us "you need to do X, Y, and Z, facility-wise." That's pretty much a given. Whether or not those numbers thrown out on the internet are real or not, they are very reasonable for a P5 league. I just looked and the ACC's smallest basketball venue (Miami) is under 8000, so it's *possible* that Devlin could be expanded to that capacity***. Of course, we all know the ideal is to build a parking deck/IPF/APC/basketball arena on the Rosen lot... but for some reason Tulane says that spot is off-limits. The football stadium, as we know, was built to expand, it's just a NIMBY fight question. I'm sure we could get it to 40,000.

*** A loooong time ago there were plans drawn up which would have cantilevered the north seating over the Pocket Park and expanded the south into the gravel yard - the difficulty of that is that the entire roof would have to be raised. I have no idea what capacity could be reached with the roof and walls as they are now, but it's definitely not "full".